G-BLLC06DBK9 520165642414387 52 | Group Programme Mastery: Fay Wallis shares her insights - Women in The Coaching Arena

Episode 52

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Published on:

7th Mar 2024

52 | Group Programme Mastery: Fay Wallis shares her insights

In today's special live episode, I'm thrilled to celebrate our one-year milestone with an exceptional guest, Fay Wallis, a career and executive coach with a top 2% worldwide rated podcast, "HR Coffee Time."

Fay has generously agreed to share the valuable lessons she's learned from launching and running her successful group coaching programme, Inspiring HR, six times over.

[00:01:00] Introduction to Fay Wallis

  • Fay Wallis, career and executive coach, shares her journey and the dramatic shift her business experienced upon niching down to serve HR professionals. Her podcast, "HR Coffee Time," stands out in the top 2% of all podcasts globally.

[00:06:00] The Genesis of Inspiring HR

  • Fay discusses the inspiration behind her group programme, addressing the unique challenges HR professionals face, from feeling isolated in their roles to struggling with senior leadership issues.

[00:12:00] Trial and Adaptation

  • Launching Inspiring HR as a pilot program allowed Fay to gather invaluable feedback, leading to significant improvements and adaptations over time. This iterative approach has been key to the programme's evolution and success.

[00:19:00] The Power of Connection Over Content

  • A major learning for Fay was the importance of fostering connections within the group, over delivering an overload of content. By focusing on creating a supportive environment, participants find greater value in the shared experience.

[00:25:00] Incorporating One-to-One Coaching

  • Initially offering multiple one-to-one sessions, Fay adjusted the program structure based on participant feedback and her own capacity, finding a balance that maintains the program's value while managing her workload effectively.

[00:30:00] Marketing and Promotion Insights

  • Fay shares her approach to filling her programme, emphasising the importance of consistent promotion, engaging with her audience, and the role of personal outreach in converting interested individuals into participants.

Key Takeaways:

  • Dare to Specialise: Niching down can significantly impact your business, attracting a more engaged and relevant audience.
  • Iterative Improvement: Launching with a pilot and being open to feedback allows for continuous improvement and adaptation.
  • Balance Connection with Content: Ensuring participants bond and connect is as crucial as the content delivered.
  • Marketing Persistence: Regular and varied promotion is key to filling group programs.

Thank you for joining us on this journey. Fay's story is an inspiration to the impact of specialisation, the power of community, and the importance of resilience in marketing.

Whether you're considering launching your own group programme or looking to refine an existing one, there's much to learn from Fay's experience.

If you'd like help with making your programme as brilliant as Fay's, I'm launching a programme called Elevate to help you to do just that. We start on Wednesday 13 March and the closing date to sign up is Friday 8 March. Here's the details to jump in quickly as I won't be running this programme for at least another 6 months.

Useful Links

Elevate: Online Course & Group Mastery Programme

How to secure more coaching clients' free training

Download the 12 ways to get clients now

Learn about The Business of Coaching programme

Connect with Jo on LinkedIn

Rate and Review the Podcast

If you found this episode of Women in the Coaching Arena helpful, please do rate and review it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

If you’re kind enough to leave a review, please do let Jo know so she can say thank you. You can always reach her at: joanna@joannalottcoaching.com

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Mentioned in this episode:

Live Event: Dare Greatly, 28 June, Barnes SW London

Dare Greatly in the Coaching Arena Live Event Date: Friday, June 28th Location: Barnes, Southwest London Join this live in-person event to get hyper-focused on your 2-3 most effective personal strategies to propel your business forward. Key benefits include: Stop over-analyzing and second-guessing Meet new business connections to brainstorm, support, and problem solve with Outline your vision and strategy with newfound focus and connection Event Details To Be Determined The specific agenda is still being developed based on input from an early waitlist. Sign up for the waitlist this week to: Provide your input on key themes/topics to cover Get the special £97 earlybird price (includes lunch) Join the Waitlist Now Link: https://go.joannalottcoaching.com/DareGreatlyJune24WaitlistSU Don't miss this chance to attend a rare live event and take your business to new heights! The waitlist offer ends in one week.

Transcript
Speaker:

Hello and welcome to Women in

the Coaching Arena podcast.

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I'm so glad you are here.

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I'm Jo Lott, a business mentor

and ICF accredited coach

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Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone):

and I help coaches to

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build brilliant businesses.

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I know that when you prepare to enter

the arena, there is fear, self doubt,

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comparison, anxiety, uncertainty.

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You can tend to armor up and

protect yourself from vulnerability.

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In this podcast, I'll be sharing

honest, not hype, practical and

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emotional tools to support you to make

the difference that you are here for.

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Dare greatly.

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You belong in this arena.

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Hello, welcome to the 52nd episode

of women in the coaching arena.

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I am so glad you are here.

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To celebrate this one year milestone.

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I'm super excited to have Fay Wallis here.

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She is a career and executive coach.

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She has a top rated podcast, one of the

top 2% of all podcasts in the world.

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And there are three and a

half million or so out there.

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Her podcast is called HR coffee time.

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And today she is sharing her learnings of

launching and running her group coaching

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program, inspiring HR, six times now.

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There is so much gold

in this conversation.

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She joined part of a private Facebook

group of a five day challenge I've been

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running but fortunately she has agreed.

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I can share it on my podcast as well.

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So thank you so much, Fay, for

sharing all of your amazing learnings.

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I feel blessed to have you in my world.

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And I'm super excited to share

this conversation with you today.

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we are live in the group.

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Thank you so much Fay for being

here on this last minute live.

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My last minute Lott formula

as usual came in in the end.

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Do share a bit about yourself.

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Oh, thank you so much for having me.

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I've been following

the challenge all week.

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So it's a surreal but exciting feeling

to be in the room with you and to tell

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everyone a little bit about myself.

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So I'm Fay.

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I have had my business Bright Sky Career

Coaching for nearly eight years, which I

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can't believe it's just gone so quickly.

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And I started off as a career

coach to All professions.

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I resisted niching for so long and it made

such a difference when I finally niched.

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So I only actually niched about a year and

a half ago, but that really is when I just

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saw a dramatic difference for my business.

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So Jo, I completely agree with the

advice you've been saying all week.

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So I niched to become a career and

executive coach for HR professionals.

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So that's what I do now.

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And I have a group

program, which I think is.

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the main thing you wanted to

talk about today, but I still

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do one to one coaching as well.

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Yes, you do.

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Exactly.

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And Fay has some amazing, exciting news.

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She probably is far too modest to

share it, so I will share it for her.

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But she has a podcast which is in

the top 2 percent of all podcasts,

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and there are about three and a

half million podcasts out there.

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Is that right, Fay?

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Yes, I, I honestly can't believe

that I found out yesterday, actually.

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So I have a podcast called HR Coffee Time,

and it was really after starting that

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podcast that I started to explore niching.

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And when I started it, I had

no idea if anyone would listen.

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I remember the first week, the first

episode came out, it showed like, you

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know, two listeners, me and my sister.

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And yeah, so I've been really blown

away by how well it's done really.

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It honestly doesn't feel real.

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When I saw that statistic yesterday,

that it's in the top 2 percent

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of all podcasts across the world.

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It's just, It's just odd because I

record it from here, which is like

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my spare bedroom slash home office.

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So in my mind someone with a huge

podcast is someone like Stephen

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Bartlett who's got you know Is a

millionaire slash billionaire already

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and has some fancy recording studio.

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So yeah, that's my exciting

news Yeah, congratulations.

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Yeah, it's an amazing podcast.

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I'm excited.

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I featured in the early episodes.

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You were only a little while

in when I was on there.

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So yes, your podcasts are amazing.

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And it was great inspiration

for me to start mine as well.

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So thank you so much and

huge congratulations.

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So tell us what inspired you to create a

group program to start with and how you

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got the idea of what program to launch.

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There were probably a few different things

that inspired me to do the group program.

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One is probably seeing you in

action Jo, because you were just

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amazing with your group program.

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But I think other things were, I hadn't

niched yet until that point and I was

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a career coach for all professions.

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And as part of that, I was doing

a lot of outplacement work.

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So for anyone who's not familiar with

outplacement work, that's when an

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organization is making redundancies

and they hire in an external person

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or a company to support all of the

people who are losing their jobs.

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with moving on to their next roles.

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And what I found with the outplacement

was, although I'd spent a long time

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building up my reputation in that

area, and I had regular clients, it

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was very unpredictable work, and I

would just suddenly get a call from an

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HR director saying, Oh my gosh, Fay,

we're letting all these people go, and

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we hadn't thought about outplacement.

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Can you, can you put

some in place for Friday?

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And what it meant was that I just

felt under pressure quite a lot of

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the time to just have to work really,

really hard at the last minute.

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And then I found myself on holiday with

my family working every single day to

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stay on top of the outplacement work

where I had new inquiries coming in.

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So at that point, the business

was doing really well.

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So I had other coaches supporting

me with delivering the work,

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but I still had to be, the main

point of contact with the client.

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And I just thought

something has to change.

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I just can't carry on working like this.

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It's not really fair on my family.

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And I thought, well, what can I do?

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Like, it's, it's, it's really difficult.

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What do I do about it?

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And I started thinking.

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Well, actually, if I had a group

program, then I could say how many

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people I wanted to help at once.

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I could set the date that it's

running, so I don't have this

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nightmare of having to work while

I'm on holiday, or having clients

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suddenly booking in when it's school

holidays, and I've got kids and things.

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The juggle is just really difficult, but

also from having the podcast, from having

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some other resources for HR professionals,

I'd started naturally attracting HR

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professionals towards me to have coaching.

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And I should say at this point,

I have an HR background before I.

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became a coach.

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I was an HR professional and

I suddenly started to notice

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similar themes coming up.

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So the same things, the same challenges

kept coming up again and again and again.

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And although I could help the people

with the coaching and it was very

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rewarding, I really realized the benefit

in actually bringing a group together.

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Because a lot of people in HR, especially

if they're in a standalone role where

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they haven't got a team, but I later

discovered this still impacts people,

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even if they have a team, particularly

if they're senior, is they can feel very

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alone and that they haven't got anyone to

talk to about their challenges at work.

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And it can be a very tough job.

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It can be very emotionally draining.

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If you are in senior leadership, there can

be conflict you're having to deal with.

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It can be hard to get

buy in for your ideas.

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And so I thought, gosh, actually,

if I created a group program where

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it's not just coaching, there's also

an element of training in there to

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introduce them to some concepts and

frameworks that I knew would help them.

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And by having a group, I, I work really

hard on trying to get the group to bond

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and connect because it was my dream

that once the group program was over,

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they would continue those relationships.

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I know that throughout my whole career and

as a coach as well, just what a difference

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relationships make if you're having

a bad day or you're stuck on an idea.

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So that was the inspiration

behind starting it.

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Yeah, amazing.

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And I love the way, Fay is

the best researcher ever.

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You really do go into your ideal client in

such detail and it's really inspirational.

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So things like, polls on LinkedIn

as to the topic, the name.

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Tell us more about how you made your

decision on what program to create.

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Oh, it's so funny you should say that.

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I feel like it's something I could

be much better at, the research part.

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Yes, but it's a good point.

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I suppose I have done

quite a lot around that.

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I'd really learned from learning about

marketing over the years that if you

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just say here's my group program Isn't

it great, but can't everyone everyone

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thinks man, whatever scroll past Whereas

if you involve people in the decision

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and you have a lot of this in HR work

if you want to get by and You need to

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involve people in what you're designing

if you involve people in the decision.

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They're far more likely to notice it,

to pay attention to it and to be engaged

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with it, but also even more importantly,

you're far more likely to create something

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that is useful and that they like.

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So I've tried to do that with a lot of

my marketing, not just the group program.

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I would share, for example, when I started

the podcast, I shared different images and

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said, These are two images for the podcast

cover art that have been designed for me.

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Which one do you prefer?

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And it was fascinating seeing what

people put and the reasons behind it.

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So I was then really confident

in what podcast cover I chose

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at that time, but I did similar

things with the group programs.

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So I was very stuck on a name and

I shared some different ideas for

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names and said, what do you think?

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And again, it was great

seeing the feedback.

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I ended up using a completely

different name to the ones that I

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suggested from seeing the feedback.

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So yes, definitely at the creation stage.

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You're right.

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I do actually involve people

quite a lot and do that research.

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And before I designed the program,

I also had research calls with quite

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a few HR professionals to try and

check that I was on the right track

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and see, are these really things

that people are struggling with?

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Yeah, you did.

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And it's a great reminder every time when

people launch something, they, they just

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want to go out there with their thing.

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It's that impatience of just like, I

just want to tell everyone about this

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thing, but it makes such a difference,

that kind of pre sale bit of the

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creation and getting people on board.

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It makes such a difference because,

you know, I'm standing here

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eight years into the business.

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At the beginning, I spent hours.

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Days, weeks creating an online course

thinking oh, everyone's gonna love this.

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Like I've put so much work into it and

I can't wait to share it with the world

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I didn't tell anyone I was doing it.

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I didn't do any research to see if anyone

wanted it I just thought this is an area

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I know about and that I can help people

with I launched it And I think I had

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like, you know two people buy it in the

first couple of months or something and it

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was just So demoralizing and depressing.

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I bought into this whole, lie that

you see online, not from you, Jo.

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You're the opposite of

this, thank goodness.

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But from this lie that actually anyone

can create an online course and, you

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know, it's going to be a huge success.

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Actually, that kind of research

part and the pre promotion part is

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just, it makes such a difference.

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So I've learned the hard

way to do it that way.

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Totally.

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Yeah, me too.

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And, and I think that's why, even

though it doesn't do my sales very

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good, I want people to learn that

there's things that we need to do

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before launching and it's all possible.

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And, and that's what you're

sharing with us today.

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But you know, you can't just whip

this thing out there next week,

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if you've got zero audience.

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And if you haven't really checked

that it's what people want.

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So please share more about

your program, Inspiring HR.

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I couldn't remember if it was six or

seven times you've launched it now.

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Yeah, so I'm just in the midst

of running it for the sixth time.

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So I've been running it for

just over a year and a half.

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And when I very first launched

it, I did it as a trial.

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So again, learning the lessons from

having launched online courses and

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it being a dismal failure before.

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I made sure I did the research to try and

involve everyone in the, you know, warm up

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to it and the design and delivery of it.

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And then I Launched it as a, I never know

if you say beta or beta, beta slash beta.

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Maybe I'll say pilot.

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So I offered it as, it was

half the price than it is now.

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I said if you'd like to join it, this

is what I'm planning on creating.

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I'll be creating it week by week for you.

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These are the different themes that

we'll be covering each week and in

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exchange for getting it for this low

price, I'd like to ask for your feedback.

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So that's how I filled it the first time.

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And I was really surprised actually,

it filled up quite quickly.

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I think probably because the price was

low and people knew that there's no way

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I was going to offer it like that again.

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And I did have an audience by this point.

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So I launched it and

what's really interesting.

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So much of the program now is different

to how I ran it that first time.

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So what used to really hold me back when I

first started working for myself was this

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idea that I had to get things perfect.

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I couldn't launch it until

it was absolutely perfect.

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And although I was still trying to

create it to a really high standard,

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I just had to say to myself, actually,

there's no such thing as perfect, Fay.

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You just have to try and

make this as helpful for this

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group of people as possible.

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And because I was asking for

feedback every week, it was

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just phenomenally helpful.

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They told me such great things about

what would have made it even better,

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like what I could do to improve it,

what they were really enjoying about it.

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And I could also see what was

working, what wasn't working.

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So, I learned so much from running it.

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as a pilot at that time, and it gave

me the confidence to experiment.

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The fact that everyone

knew it was a pilot.

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They did have it as a cheaper price.

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And then I've just tried to,

every single time I've run it

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since, improve it and change it.

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So if you attended Inspiring HR

now, and then attend it in three

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years time, it will probably be

a slightly different experience.

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There are certain things that I

have kept the same, but there are

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lots of little things I'm doing

to just tweak it and change it.

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But I think also that's what keeps

me really interested in it and I love

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it because I really enjoy learning.

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So it's quite exciting when you

learn new stuff, being able to

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incorporate it into the program.

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Oh, it is.

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Yeah.

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Again, another thing I admire about

you is that continuous development

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and making your program even better.

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Do share in the comments if

you have questions for Fay.

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I will keep going, but if you've got

specific questions, do share in the chat.

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Let me see where to go next.

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Should we talk about the challenges?

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So what were the biggest challenges

you, you're like, not really?

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No, thank you.

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What were the biggest challenges

and how did you overcome them?

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Oh my gosh, so many challenges.

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So I think I talked about some of them

around, you know, the design and the

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promotion up front, which is where I

had learnt the hard way, not what to do.

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So they were kind of

challenges from before.

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But I still had challenges with

running the programme, so it'll

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probably be helpful to explain

what happens in the six weeks.

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So it's a six week intensive programme.

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We meet once a week for two hours.

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Over Zoom, during that time.

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And as part of the program, they also

get to have some one-to-one coaching

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with me as well as the group sessions.

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And each group session

covers a different topic.

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So the first one is about setting

yourself up for success, and that's

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the one I changed the most, although

it's stayed the same, the last few

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cohorts, and that is because the

first group didn't really bond.

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And I was like, what, what, this is

my, this is my whole point at the, you

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know, one of the big selling points of

the program is to help everyone bond.

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And the mistake I had made

was, I was just so keen to get

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straight to the helpful content.

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So the other weeks look

at building confidence.

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There's another week on being strategic,

another one on building key relationships

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at a senior level, and another one

on influencing at a senior level.

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And then, we move on to

planning for the future.

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And so I just thought, right, okay,

I've got so much to share with them.

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I mustn't miss anything out.

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Let's dive straight into it.

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So I had everyone introduce themselves.

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We have a private WhatsApp group

as well in the WhatsApp group.

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And then I didn't really give anyone

time to get to know each other

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properly in that first session.

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And I also didn't set

any clear expectations.

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So I'm someone who really needs

accountability and I hadn't

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really realized how many other

people need this as well.

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So there was pre work to do

every week, but I would just say,

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Oh, and here's some pre work.

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I really hope it helps.

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And then if people didn't do the pre

work I wouldn't really say anything.

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But what happened was it was a

nightmare because I'd then turn up to

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the group session and some people had

done the pre work and so they were

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quite far along in their learning

journey and other people hadn't.

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Some people were turning up late

where they were saying they were busy.

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I kind of felt like people

just hadn't really gelled.

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There were a couple of people who had

really gelled, but not the whole group.

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And so I learned a massively valuable

lesson and a book that helped me with this

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that I know you love as well, Jo is called

the art of gathering by Priya Parker.

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So really recommend that read.

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It's just fantastic.

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And.

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As part of that book, she really talks

about how important it is to help

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people transition into your group.

322

:

And I can't remember if it was

definitely in that book actually,

323

:

or if I've got it from somewhere

else, but about helping people gel.

324

:

So now almost the whole first session

is about helping everyone get to know

325

:

each other, to relax, co creating

a learning environment, I call it.

326

:

So I say what does everyone in this

room need to be able to feel you are

327

:

getting the best out of this program.

328

:

And so things like confidentiality,

empathy, listening, support,

329

:

honesty, all this stuff comes up.

330

:

But if you don't ask people to share it,

they worry about speaking up or giving an

331

:

opinion or being vulnerable because you

haven't laid out the the ground rules.

332

:

And so it's not me saying, okay, everyone,

you've got to be nice to each other.

333

:

You've got to be supportive.

334

:

Instead I go around everyone

and say, what's going to help

335

:

this be really good for you.

336

:

And it's, it sounds such a small thing,

Jo, but it made such a big difference.

337

:

And I introduced other things as well

to try and help the group bond and over

338

:

time I stripped out more and more of

the content that I was sharing with the

339

:

group because I realized the real power

came in them being able to talk to each

340

:

other and to share experiences and to

think about the challenges they had

341

:

instead of me teaching them like, you

know, the ABC of influence, like I still

342

:

have parts of that in there, but overall

the bonding stuff is just so important.

343

:

Yeah, it's so true, isn't it?

344

:

And it's a great reminder for me.

345

:

Cause I think I used to do that a lot.

346

:

And I, we used to talk all the time

and you used to be going well, what you

347

:

don't just rock up at the session and

not have a, you know, loads of training.

348

:

And I used to be like, yeah,

it's, it's absolutely fine.

349

:

And then now actually I often

deliver training now and.

350

:

And you've gone the opposite way.

351

:

So it's a great reminder for me to

sometimes go back to a bit more free

352

:

flow because people need that space.

353

:

And we're up to here with knowledge.

354

:

It's about connection and all

of the other things as well.

355

:

Isn't it?

356

:

Yeah, I think it's about

getting that balance.

357

:

So I do still.

358

:

introduce content.

359

:

I still do training as part of the

session, but it's making sure they've

360

:

really got time in the breakout rooms.

361

:

I was cramming so much in.

362

:

I'd be like, and you've got

three minutes to talk about this.

363

:

And people would be like, what?

364

:

That's not long enough.

365

:

And I wasn't giving enough time for

people to really think and work their way.

366

:

through and think about how

does that content apply to me?

367

:

How could I use it?

368

:

I was just going, here it

all is, here it all is.

369

:

So, yeah, that's been a huge lesson

and I'm sure you are naturally

370

:

much better at this than me.

371

:

Oh, no, no, not at all.

372

:

But like you say, it's a great reminder

because I think all of us have that

373

:

tendency to want to give so much

value that we can end up overwhelming.

374

:

So it's a great reminder

for everyone listening.

375

:

And there are some

questions now in the chat.

376

:

So Emma says, how long did it take you

to do the research before your launch?

377

:

Well I'm quite a, Jo knows this,

I'm quite slow at taking action.

378

:

Once I get going I'm okay.

379

:

So I don't want you to at

all base what you do on me.

380

:

Because I don't think, I'm probably

an example of best practice.

381

:

I probably spent a good six months

thinking about the group program,

382

:

worrying about the group program, doing

some research on the group program,

383

:

reading up on content to use in the group

program, and I didn't need that long.

384

:

Also I actually had to educate

myself quite a lot on some

385

:

of the stuff I was teaching.

386

:

I didn't know a lot of it.

387

:

I might have known about it on a

shallow level, but of course when you're

388

:

doing what I'd call pure coaching,

you don't have to have any expertise.

389

:

You just have to have the great

questions and the being able to

390

:

hold the space and everything.

391

:

And I thought, Oh my gosh, I'm

actually introducing content.

392

:

And it's not just about.

393

:

You know, job search or changing

career, which is what my main

394

:

focus is had been before.

395

:

So if you're watching and thinking

of launching a group program, you

396

:

probably have a much deeper level

of expertise than I did at the time.

397

:

I was really having to learn

this stuff, which is partly

398

:

why it took me a long time.

399

:

Yeah, interesting.

400

:

And I guess your podcast helps you

to learn as well, though, doesn't it.

401

:

Because then you're constantly

having to research for your podcast.

402

:

But I can't remember if you

had your podcast going at the

403

:

time you launched your program.

404

:

Yes, I did.

405

:

I had already got the podcast going.

406

:

And you're right, Any sort of mechanism

where you're having to put content out

407

:

into the world every week in like a

long form, whether that's an article

408

:

or a video or a podcast, it really

makes you up your game because you,

409

:

you have to keep learning all the time.

410

:

And with a podcast, it's great because

you get to learn from the guests as well.

411

:

So I've learned so much from

guests who have come on the show.

412

:

I always ask for a book

recommendation at the end.

413

:

That's been brilliant.

414

:

Hopefully for the listeners, but

I've been able to come across all

415

:

these books I haven't heard of before

and learned lots of new concepts.

416

:

Yeah, exactly.

417

:

I bet you have.

418

:

So Liz has said she's launching her first

group coaching on the 15th of March.

419

:

Not sure whether to make

it four or six weeks.

420

:

Have you got any insight into how

you decided your program length?

421

:

That's a great question.

422

:

Because as part of the research, I

spoke to loads of people who I knew,

423

:

had group programs or knew about it.

424

:

So I remember talking to you for ages, Jo,

and I spoke to someone else as well, who

425

:

at the time, she doesn't do it anymore,

she was specializing in group programs,

426

:

and she said, Oh no, this sounds like

it should be a six month program, Fay.

427

:

Why are you doing it in six weeks?

428

:

Six months would be much better.

429

:

But I just, at the time, I, I

didn't have the confidence to

430

:

really say, okay everyone, you're

stuck with me for six months.

431

:

I just thought, oh my gosh, you

know, what if it doesn't work?

432

:

Like the inner critic was going mad,

you know, what if it's a disaster?

433

:

You're going to have to see these poor

people every single month with them,

434

:

you know, not enjoying the program.

435

:

So I probably designed it as six weeks for

bad reasons, which was my own confidence.

436

:

But I also did it as six weeks because

of, Having a family and what I had

437

:

realized also the very first time I ran

it was that one of the weeks overran

438

:

into the school holidays, and only half

the people showed up for that session.

439

:

So I really thought, Oh, actually,

this is quite helpful because most

440

:

half terms are at least six weeks.

441

:

So I could slot it into

my calendar that way.

442

:

I did worry it wasn't long enough.

443

:

So I think if you're thinking of

four weeks or six weeks, it's going

444

:

to really depend on what your focus

is and what the transformation is

445

:

that you're hoping to get for people.

446

:

With my six weeks, the first week, as I

mentioned, is very much about helping the

447

:

group bond, setting them up for success.

448

:

Setting the expectations.

449

:

So, you know, now everyone gets

their pre work in, everyone turns

450

:

up on time, everyone really bonds

because I've laid that groundwork.

451

:

And then the very final week is really

about saying goodbye to everybody.

452

:

I read another great book.

453

:

I think it's called The Art of

Community or something like that.

454

:

I can share it with you afterwards.

455

:

In it, the author has researched groups

and what makes them successful in

456

:

communities and what helps them bond.

457

:

And he talks about how important

it is to have a goodbye and

458

:

have like a ritual at the end.

459

:

So people really feel

like, Oh, that was great.

460

:

And it's come to an end and

I feel so happy about it.

461

:

And actually really, I'm only

have four weeks that are properly

462

:

focused on the topics that are

going to help them in their careers.

463

:

The First week is really onboarding them

and that last week is offboarding them.

464

:

So that's my experience, you know.

465

:

You might just have one topic and

actually you think, Yeah, that's fine.

466

:

I can, I can do some nice

onboarding and saying goodbye.

467

:

And I've still got plenty to

cover off in the other weeks.

468

:

So I think it's a really individual thing.

469

:

Yeah, it is totally.

470

:

And Emma's asked a good question and

I'm interested to know the answer now.

471

:

So do you include one to one

coaching in your program?

472

:

Because I know you used to and I

can't remember if you do anymore.

473

:

Yeah, so I did.

474

:

So we started it off saying everyone got

to have two one to one coaching sessions,

475

:

one at the beginning and one at the end.

476

:

And then, one person gave me

feedback saying, Oh, it'd be

477

:

nice if we could have three, Fay.

478

:

And so I went, okay, because I just wanted

to do anything that anyone asked me to

479

:

try and make it as good as possible.

480

:

So I introduced three sessions, and I

said, You can have one at the beginning,

481

:

one in the middle, one at the end.

482

:

But what happened was everyone booked

in the beginning one, and then they

483

:

thought, Let's save up our other two

sessions for when we really need them.

484

:

And it meant that I got

overbooked with sessions.

485

:

So I remember just being so stressed

out at one point because I had

486

:

all my regular one to one clients.

487

:

I had a new cohort of

inspiring HR starting up.

488

:

Everyone was booking in

for their meet me sessions.

489

:

I had all these people from

previous cohorts had saved up

490

:

their sessions and suddenly started

booking them all at the same time.

491

:

And I just thought, Oh my gosh, actually,

I really want to make this valuable

492

:

for people, but I've also got to

think about how is this working from a

493

:

business perspective, like financially,

I haven't got time to do other work

494

:

and starting to feel really stressed.

495

:

And I also noticed that, very few

people used all three sessions where

496

:

they would save one session up forever.

497

:

And, and then I thought, well, that,

that just that doesn't seem right.

498

:

So for my latest cohort, I thought,

you know what, I'm just gonna

499

:

take the one to one coaching out.

500

:

I had put the one to one coaching

in because at the beginning, I

501

:

didn't have confidence in myself.

502

:

I thought, what if the

group program doesn't work?

503

:

What if it's not good enough?

504

:

What if people don't get enough value?

505

:

And I'd been doing one to one

coaching for so long, I knew that

506

:

people would get value from it.

507

:

I'd worked so hard on my skills with that.

508

:

So I thought, okay, if the group program's

a disaster, at least I know they're

509

:

going to be getting this great value

from the one to one sessions with me.

510

:

But what I learned along the

way is the power of the group.

511

:

And I had, in my heart of hearts,

I had thought one to one coaching

512

:

was better than group coaching.

513

:

It was more valuable as a service.

514

:

But what I could see as I progressed

with Inspiring HR was I was wrong.

515

:

And actually group coaching,

when you get it right, it is

516

:

just so powerful for people.

517

:

It's so life changing that I

suddenly realized that I didn't

518

:

really need to be including it.

519

:

So I stripped it out completely and then

no one signed up for, the latest cohort.

520

:

So I went, oh no, I

better put some back in.

521

:

So, I've put a session back in.

522

:

So when they had several one

to one sessions, they were

523

:

just 40 minute sessions.

524

:

And now that I have added,

I've added one session back in

525

:

and that's a one hour session.

526

:

So I feel like.

527

:

Okay people clearly do actually still

want the reassurance of knowing they

528

:

can have some one to one time with

me And actually I enjoy doing the one

529

:

to one coaching still but one session

feels like it's manageable for me

530

:

Hopefully it's manageable for them.

531

:

Hopefully every single person will

use that session and then i'll really

532

:

feel like oh i've got this right But

this is the sixth time of running it.

533

:

So i'm hoping that shows everyone

who's watching right now that About it.

534

:

It helps reinforce that idea that

there's no such thing as perfect.

535

:

You just learn and you change and

you adapt each time you run it.

536

:

Yeah, totally great learning

and I've done exactly the same

537

:

because I used to do the same and

everyone saved up their sessions and

538

:

stayed stuck rather than book the session

because what if they got more stuck.

539

:

Well, also with that, Jo, what happened

was, because the program is all focused

540

:

on the like, confidence and influencing

skills and strategic skills, so the things

541

:

that I knew a lot of HR professionals

struggled with, people would turn up to

542

:

the one to one session and they'd say,

I don't really know what to talk about,

543

:

Fay, because I signed up for the group

program because of what you're covering,

544

:

and you've covered it, and I'm feeling

much better about that now, so watch me

545

:

use this for, and that's really when I

realized, oh, that's a real power in.

546

:

The way I've structured this anyway.

547

:

So, um, yeah, I thought it just might

be helpful to share that as well.

548

:

Oh yeah.

549

:

Super, super helpful.

550

:

So Sandra has said, love the point that

Fay made between content and balance.

551

:

I always worry about content.

552

:

Maybe I need to trust the process myself.

553

:

So true, Sandra.

554

:

Debbie said, great reminder

about output versus input.

555

:

Because that's always a tendency,

isn't it, for the value?

556

:

I'm so pleased that's a

helpful message to hear.

557

:

I had that advice from someone who

runs, uh, group programs in corporates

558

:

and had done it for a long time.

559

:

And I said, what would your advice be

for when I'm doing my group program?

560

:

And she said, just Keep it

as content light as possible.

561

:

And I remember thinking, Oh, she's wrong.

562

:

Um, I need to make sure I'm

really giving them a bit of value.

563

:

I need to make sure I'm telling

them everything they need to know.

564

:

And then after running it,

I'm like, Oh, she was right.

565

:

Again, I learned the hard way

and even when I'm running it

566

:

still now, I keep questioning,

should I strip a bit more out?

567

:

Should I include that content

as an optional extra for them?

568

:

It is hard getting the balance right.

569

:

Oh, it is totally

570

:

.

So Lisa said that's really helpful.

571

:

I know the value of giving the space

to the group, but this conflicts with

572

:

me wanting to offer so much value.

573

:

Totally.

574

:

Balance is key or keep this in mind.

575

:

Sandra said, how many times a year

do you run your group program?

576

:

That's a great question.

577

:

So it's varied.

578

:

But on average, three times a

year is what I'm aiming for.

579

:

And that's partly a fear that

I won't be able to fill it

580

:

if I run it more than that.

581

:

So I can normally fill it, running

it two to three times a year.

582

:

So I don't know if that's just like

a limiting belief that I wouldn't

583

:

be able to fill it more than that.

584

:

Um, or if it's true, but I quite liked

the fact that I, I do a launch and I

585

:

talk about the fact that programs coming

up and people can book on and, I have

586

:

a whole launch phase and then it's just

quite nice coming out of that launch

587

:

phase, for me personally and doing other

stuff and not selling all the time and

588

:

then I'm able to share my podcast more.

589

:

So that's really just down to me

and my inner workings probably,

590

:

rather than cold hard logic.

591

:

So who knows in the future,

maybe I'll run it differently.

592

:

I've had a few people approach

me in the last couple of weeks

593

:

saying, would I run it for a more

junior level of HR professionals?

594

:

Which has got me thinking, cause I hadn't

really thought of doing that, but then

595

:

that would mean running it in a slightly

different way, but more times a year.

596

:

So yeah, I don't know.

597

:

I'm still thinking about whether I

should change the frequency or not.

598

:

Yeah, exciting.

599

:

And so tell us about how you

fill the program in particular.

600

:

Again, lots of learning the hard way.

601

:

So, there was only one time

when I had a low uptake.

602

:

The first time I ran it, I had a maximum

of six people because I was nervous

603

:

about how I'd be able to manage a group,

but then I increased it to eight people

604

:

and I was quite comfortable with that.

605

:

So normally I have between seven to

eight people on the group program,

606

:

but when I ran it in September last

year, I only had five and I got really

607

:

upset about it and started really

questioning myself like, oh no, you

608

:

know, no one wants to do it anymore.

609

:

And, this is all a disaster.

610

:

And I remember saying to you, Jo, Oh God,

I'm feeling really rubbish about this.

611

:

And you were like, how many

times did you promote it, Fay?

612

:

And I was like I don't

like bothering people.

613

:

You know, I've talked about

it so many times before.

614

:

And you went, how many times Fay?

615

:

And I went, well, I did two

emails and one social media post.

616

:

And you were like, uh, I

think you might have to.

617

:

Promotes it a bit more.

618

:

So it just goes to show how

much our Oh, I don't know.

619

:

It's us, isn't it, who hold

ourselves back a lot of the time.

620

:

And it's not a service, I have

a product, that I sell as well,

621

:

which is called the HR Planner.

622

:

And I sell that once a year

in the run up to Christmas.

623

:

And I had a social media

person help me with selling it.

624

:

in the run up last Christmas and she

really pushed me outside my comfort zone.

625

:

So she said, right, Fay,

you need to do another post.

626

:

And I went, I only like

doing one post a week.

627

:

I don't want to do more.

628

:

And she's like, Fay, you have a

15, 000 pound printing bill that

629

:

you have to pay to the printers.

630

:

You've got to sell the planners.

631

:

You've got to post more than once a week.

632

:

So I was like, okay, okay.

633

:

Hopefully that won't bother people.

634

:

So, did some more posts.

635

:

And then she said, Fay, you

need a testimonial post.

636

:

I'm like, oh, I hate testimonials.

637

:

It's so uncomfortable

asking people for them.

638

:

And she went, go out and

ask for a testimonial.

639

:

So I asked someone for a testimonial.

640

:

She posted it for me.

641

:

I sold a load of planners.

642

:

Every time she posted, I sold planners.

643

:

She posted in different styles to how

I would sometimes and pushing me to do

644

:

things I didn't feel as comfortable with.

645

:

Um, and so I learned a lot from that.

646

:

So this time with running Inspiring HR,

I, tried to just take those learnings.

647

:

So I didn't just do one social media post

and two emails, Jo, I did a lot more.

648

:

So I was looking yesterday,

I think I sent five or six

649

:

emails over a five week period.

650

:

And I posted about it every

single week over that period.

651

:

And it, I also, promoted

it on my podcast as well.

652

:

So I had a pre-roll, it's called like a

little advert you post at the beginning.

653

:

And it made such a difference and

it really made me realize, gosh,

654

:

you've gotta listen to the wise

people like Jo and follow the advice

655

:

and just keep on going with it.

656

:

Because I'd feel like, oh gosh, people

don't want to hear about this again.

657

:

But then someone would book on, you

know, there were, I think I had one

658

:

or two emails where people didn't

book on, or I had one or two social

659

:

media posts where people didn't

book on, but you just never know.

660

:

People are so busy.

661

:

They often don't notice the emails landing

in their inbox and they're not sitting

662

:

there on LinkedIn waiting to see my post.

663

:

So, that's how I did it.

664

:

And I made sure I mixed up the

content I was sharing as well.

665

:

So.

666

:

I shared a testimonial, even

though I hate doing that.

667

:

You know, I checked with the person

first and I shared the testimonial.

668

:

I also did quite a lot of

work on my sales page as well.

669

:

I found the very first time I launched it,

I didn't have a sales page on my website.

670

:

I literally just sent an email

saying, would you be interested in

671

:

doing the pilot for my group program?

672

:

And I did social media posts.

673

:

Would you be interested

in doing the pilot?

674

:

And if anyone said yes,

Can I have the information?

675

:

I just sent them a PDF that

had all of the information.

676

:

And I filled it that way the first time.

677

:

So again, for anyone watching, who's

thinking, Oh no, I have to build a sales

678

:

page and I've got to find a way of taking

money and all of these other things.

679

:

You don't, you can start it off

in a really easy way, but because

680

:

I've run it lots of times now, I've

been able to learn from each time.

681

:

So also I've been able to

see which social media posts.

682

:

impactful before.

683

:

So for the very first time, I've

actually done some content repurposing,

684

:

which I'm rubbish at normally.

685

:

And so for this launch, two of the posts

I shared, I had shared about a year

686

:

ago, but they had done really well.

687

:

So I just, you know, changed the

dates in them, copied and pasted.

688

:

No one said, hey, didn't you

send this post before a year ago?

689

:

Um, instead people looked

on, which, which was great.

690

:

That's so, so brilliant.

691

:

And I think we do need to promote

way more than we feel comfortable.

692

:

And hilarious enough this week,

Kate Hill, who spoke on Tuesday, she

693

:

messaged me saying, she's been filling

her group program easily every month.

694

:

And this month she wasn't, and she's

like, you know, the world is ending.

695

:

I'm like, yeah, how many

times have you mentioned it?

696

:

So anyway, last night, she messaged going.

697

:

Fill the program.

698

:

Good idea.

699

:

You and Kate are very lucky

because generally you send one

700

:

message and fill the program.

701

:

But most people have to do

a tiny bit more than that.

702

:

So exactly.

703

:

Anytime you're thinking

this is not going to work.

704

:

Yeah.

705

:

Just take more action.

706

:

Yeah, and you can get

creative with it as well.

707

:

So, um, I remember saying to you when I

was panicking with filling this one as

708

:

well because in the first week I only had

one person booked on and I'm like, oh no!

709

:

I'm only going to have one

person on the programme!

710

:

But, you know, it's all

fine, thank goodness.

711

:

And so I sat down and I recorded 24

individual videos that I emailed to

712

:

people who were on my waiting list.

713

:

So once I've filled Inspiring HR, I

normally then just change the button

714

:

on the website from sign up now to

it's full or I'm not running it at

715

:

the moment, join the waiting list.

716

:

And so I had this really big

waiting list, but no one on it

717

:

was signing up, which was really

frustrating, just from regular emails.

718

:

So I sent the ones who were the most

highly engaged, or who had signed up

719

:

the most recently, I just made them a

little video saying, Oh, hi, it's me Fay.

720

:

And I used their first name.

721

:

So they knew I was making it for them.

722

:

And I said, you know, I know that

you're on the waiting list and it'd

723

:

be lovely to have you in the group.

724

:

Can you please let me know

if you'd like a place?

725

:

Because they just weren't

replying to my emails.

726

:

And then I remember saying to you,

Oh no, no one's watching the videos.

727

:

I spent a whole day making them and no

one's watching them, but slowly people

728

:

started to watch the videos and that

was a good lesson for me, but I'll send

729

:

an email going, you know, the deadlines

next week, but people haven't even

730

:

picked up the email for a week sometimes.

731

:

So what's happened from doing that?

732

:

Because I did the video so close to

the deadline is that I started having

733

:

all these people replying, going, Oh

no, I've only just watched the video.

734

:

And you've filled the program.

735

:

Can you put me onto it next time?

736

:

So for the first time ever,

I have actually got people.

737

:

It's forced me to be organized and set

the exact dates for when it's running

738

:

again and update the website and say,

this is when I'm running it again,

739

:

instead of just having a wait list.

740

:

And I've got one definite person

booked on and I'm pretty sure

741

:

I'm going to get a couple more.

742

:

So you just learn every

time you do it, you learn.

743

:

You do.

744

:

Lester has said one of the main messages

I am getting from both of you is that

745

:

marketing is important but it also

sounds difficult to keep track of.

746

:

Do you use some kind of CRM Oh,

that's such a good question.

747

:

Yes, not very well, is the answer.

748

:

So, I've tried all different kinds of

CRM software over the years, and the one

749

:

that I like the most is called HubSpot.

750

:

And it used to be extortionate, but then

a couple of years ago, um, they introduced

751

:

a kind of like entry level pricing band

that's About 30 pounds a month, I think.

752

:

So you don't get access to the

full incredible functionality,

753

:

but it is so good and you can

really keep track of everybody.

754

:

Having said that, I'm not that great

at using it for the group program.

755

:

I'm better at using it for tracking

where I'm up to with podcast

756

:

guests and also tracking where

I'm up to with one to one clients.

757

:

But with that software, what happens

is you can get people to fill in

758

:

a form on your website or online

and then they'll magically appear.

759

:

in the software.

760

:

And then if you email them and they reply,

all of that is trapped in there as well.

761

:

So it just means you're not,

you know, frantically scrolling

762

:

through your sent items to see

what you sent your last client.

763

:

So I really like that software, but

actually, just because I'm not disciplined

764

:

enough with it for the group program,

it ends up being a bit different.

765

:

I normally end up creating myself.

766

:

a spreadsheet of who's booked on, how

they're paying, when they've paid.

767

:

I send everybody now an

onboarding, really short survey.

768

:

So, you know, why have you signed up?

769

:

What do you want to get out of it?

770

:

Have you got any concerns?

771

:

And also from an inclusion

perspective, to make this a really

772

:

great learning experience for you.

773

:

I can't remember what the question

is that I actually asked, but it's

774

:

to, you know, they can then share

if they have dyslexia or they're

775

:

worried or there's a disability or a

nervousness about attending the session.

776

:

So, you can have all of

that information as well.

777

:

So yeah, because the groups are,

you know, eight people, I tend

778

:

to just keep it on a spreadsheet.

779

:

If I don't, I start to worry I'm

losing track, but I could easily.

780

:

Track it in HubSpot.

781

:

So maybe if you ever do this challenge

again, and I'm on cohort seven, Jo,

782

:

I might be able to say, woo, I've got

all organized and it's in HubSpot now.

783

:

But I don't use HubSpot emails because

I have, I'm very lucky to have built

784

:

a large, um, email list and it would

cost a fortune to host that in HubSpot.

785

:

I think once you get over

a thousand people on your

786

:

list, it's like extortionate.

787

:

So I actually use.

788

:

convert kit for my email software.

789

:

And it's really, really good

because you can tag people.

790

:

So as soon as someone has booked

to come on the, this is all, I

791

:

don't want to scare you because

you know, this is six cohorts in.

792

:

At the beginning.

793

:

I just said to people,

here's the PDF document.

794

:

And then I put their

name in a spreadsheet.

795

:

They've asked me about it.

796

:

And then I would just

send them an invoice.

797

:

Pay that way.

798

:

Whereas now that it's

progressed, it's really changed.

799

:

So on my website, I use a plugin

called ThriveCart, which is brilliant.

800

:

And people can use that to book.

801

:

So they can either pay for the

whole thing up front, or they can

802

:

choose to pay in five installments.

803

:

And then.

804

:

That then tags them in ConvertKit

and says, Inspiring HR Cohort 6.

805

:

That then automatically takes them

off the waiting list in ConvertKit

806

:

if they were in there already.

807

:

So it's all become a lot more

sophisticated, but it's taken

808

:

me, you know, pushing two

years to get to that point.

809

:

So don't feel you've got

whizzy and sophisticated.

810

:

And there's still loads more

I could be doing to make it

811

:

even better, to be honest.

812

:

Wow.

813

:

Well, I'm impressed by it.

814

:

It's a great reminder and I sold

from my PDF Word document for years.

815

:

And I think actually in a way I

sold this program that I'm selling

816

:

now through a PDF prior to this

launch and it works just fine.

817

:

People can just read the information

and say yes, and then you invoice them.

818

:

So, you know, whilst it's.

819

:

amazing when you get to the point

that they just hit that and then

820

:

it tags them and then it gives

them entry and all of that.

821

:

It's not always required

right away, is it?

822

:

But it's, it's a great

inspiration for where we're all

823

:

wanting to get to automation.

824

:

how did you ensure your course was

engaging and valuable for participants?

825

:

By obsessing about it?

826

:

Is that what drives everyone mad?

827

:

Who, uh, who I know who is in this world?

828

:

Uh, I built up to it.

829

:

So, when I first met Jo and Jo'

said, Oh, I love doing groups.

830

:

And I thought, really, really?

831

:

Oh, no.

832

:

How terrifying.

833

:

Like, I only like doing one to one.

834

:

That's where my skill set is.

835

:

And then that really held me back for

a long time of doing groups because

836

:

I just thought I couldn't do it.

837

:

But actually, I just hadn't

had any practice at it.

838

:

So, what happened was I actually

got booked as an associate coach

839

:

by another company who had created

a series of workshops and they

840

:

asked me to co run the workshops.

841

:

I was so nervous about it.

842

:

So I, about 15 people in each

workshop and I thought, oh my

843

:

gosh, this is so nerve wracking.

844

:

But I was running it alongside a far

more experienced facilitator who had

845

:

designed the workshops and she was the

loveliest person in the world and she

846

:

was just like, you're going to be great.

847

:

You're going to be great.

848

:

I was like, I don't think I can do it.

849

:

I'm going to be terrible.

850

:

I can only do one to one.

851

:

It's going to be a disaster.

852

:

And she's like, you're going to be great.

853

:

And then I did it and the feedback

was amazing and I really enjoyed it.

854

:

I mean, I felt like I was having

a panic attack before I started.

855

:

But by the end of it was, oh yeah, I

thought that's quite good actually.

856

:

You know.

857

:

The world didn't stop turning.

858

:

It wasn't a disaster.

859

:

I've had great feedback.

860

:

It was lovely seeing the group interact.

861

:

So I was quite lucky that, I kind

of fell into having to do it.

862

:

And then I started being

asked to run workshops for the

863

:

outplacement support I was doing.

864

:

And so then I was presenting

on topics I knew really well.

865

:

So, I felt a little bit more confident

and I always wanted to make it engaging

866

:

because of my own experience of attending

workshops and webinars where someone just

867

:

talks at you and you start just being so

bored and thinking, I'll just look at my

868

:

phone or, you know, turn my camera off.

869

:

This is horrendous.

870

:

So I started really watching and learning

from the things I was experiencing myself.

871

:

So I've attended other sort of

type group programs or masterminds

872

:

or group coaching things myself.

873

:

And whilst in them, you think,

oh, that was really good.

874

:

I really liked the way they did that.

875

:

Or that wasn't so great.

876

:

I'm not going to do that

in my group program.

877

:

So it's invaluable.

878

:

I think going out and actually

joining, other programs that are

879

:

going to help you professionally, but

you see the facilitators in action.

880

:

When I ran the first group program,

I had just done workshops before,

881

:

and I hadn't had any particular,

you know, group coaching training

882

:

or running workshops training.

883

:

I was just doing it from

feel and experience.

884

:

And then as I've got more into

it, I've become a bit obsessed

885

:

because I now love group coaching.

886

:

Anytime I see, oh, there's a masterclass

or some training or there's a book

887

:

about it, then I just, I book onto it.

888

:

And even if I just learn one

tiny little thing that I think

889

:

is going to help make my program

engaging, it's worth having done it.

890

:

So, but I love learning and doing

this stuff and the Priya Parker book,

891

:

you know, I'd highly recommend that.

892

:

There's a fab other book

called, the two hour workshop.

893

:

Blueprint which is by Leanne Hughes.

894

:

She's got a great podcast,

Flourishing Facilitator.

895

:

That's fab, and that's really helped

me to run some great sessions as well

896

:

in Inspiring HR and outside of it.

897

:

It is so good.

898

:

So I ran, you know, outside

of the Greek program.

899

:

I run workshops sometimes, and I

get myself all stressed about them.

900

:

Oh, why have I agreed to do this?

901

:

Oh, it's going to be so hard.

902

:

Oh, I know nothing about it.

903

:

Oh, it's going to be a disaster.

904

:

And, um, and then it's

all fine, obviously.

905

:

But I used the two hour workshop

blueprint for the last one I ran, and

906

:

half, uh, the last two that I ran,

and I really felt like, oh my gosh,

907

:

this has, like, pulled me up to.

908

:

another level now of facilitation.

909

:

Like the feedback was just so good.

910

:

You think, well, maybe all I

should do is run workshops.

911

:

Yeah, I'd highly recommend

her book and her podcast.

912

:

They're both great.

913

:

So it's called the flourishing

facilitator podcast.

914

:

Podcast.

915

:

Yeah.

916

:

And the book is called the

two hour workshop blueprints.

917

:

Amazing.

918

:

They are on my list.

919

:

So what would you say are your top

three lessons that you've learned from

920

:

building and launching your group program?

921

:

I think it's about going for it

even if you feel terrified, even if

922

:

your inner critic is saying, you're

rubbish, this is never going to work.

923

:

Like, I think people are always

surprised if they ask me about this

924

:

and I say how nervous I get beforehand.

925

:

But I've really learned

with the confidence.

926

:

Oh, there's this great quote,

confidence is fuel for action.

927

:

So real confidence doesn't mean that

I can stand here to you and say,

928

:

I've got the best group program.

929

:

I know it's going to be great every time.

930

:

It's not that.

931

:

I feel incredibly nervous every

single time I run it, but I don't

932

:

let that stop me from running it.

933

:

So for anyone who's watching this

thinking, Oh, I don't think I'm

934

:

good enough, or I haven't got long

enough, or what if everyone hates

935

:

it, or, what if I pass out from fear

part way through, whatever it is, I

936

:

would just say the lesson is just.

937

:

Keep going you can do it.

938

:

It's going to be fine.

939

:

Everyone gets nervous.

940

:

That's normal That shows you're a human

not a robot and actually your nerves

941

:

are just trying to really prepare you

to do your best in that Situation.

942

:

So I mean I so I ran it for the sixth

time this sounds so gross this week.

943

:

So you'd think I'd be

wildly confident by now.

944

:

I got like 10 out of 10

feedback last time I ran it.

945

:

I had video testimonials

for the first time.

946

:

It was already glowing.

947

:

I was so nervous, but no one would have

known, but my body was giving me away.

948

:

I was like sweating like mad.

949

:

I had to change my top after

running it because I had got

950

:

myself so nervous before.

951

:

So I really hope that's

reassuring for people watching

952

:

because people don't believe me.

953

:

If they hear me on a podcast interview,

say I get nervous, they're like, What?

954

:

What are you talking about?

955

:

You, you seem so confident, but on the

inside I'm not, but I'm making myself

956

:

do it and it's, it's, it's just been,

I'm so pleased to do make myself do it

957

:

because the end results are so great and

I do end up really enjoying the process.

958

:

So that's my very long answer for

the top one thing I've learned.

959

:

I can stop there Jo, if you want.

960

:

No, no, it was amazing and I absolutely

loved that one about real confidence is.

961

:

is doing it anyway.

962

:

And I think we all need to be more

authentic with that and not pretend

963

:

that we have this all sus because

like, I think everyone in life is

964

:

just trying, trying their best.

965

:

And if you are challenging yourself,

you're going to be nervous.

966

:

You're going to be scared.

967

:

And, so yeah, I really feel you on that.

968

:

And it's the best advice you could have

shared for your, for your first one.

969

:

Now I'm going to try and try

and get two more out of you.

970

:

That was such a good one.

971

:

So yeah, so your biggest

learnings, your first one was

972

:

feel the fear and do it anyway.

973

:

The second one is

progress over perfection.

974

:

So instead of thinking,

it's got to be perfect.

975

:

I've got to have done all the research.

976

:

I've got to have ticked every single box.

977

:

I've got to have it all

planned out beforehand.

978

:

I'm just thinking I'm going

to try my absolute best to

979

:

make this as good as possible.

980

:

And, I'm going to get feedback and

then I'm going to make it even better.

981

:

So it really switching from that mindset

or that can hold us back so much.

982

:

If it's got to be perfect, it's

got to be perfect to, thinking

983

:

actually, it's an iterative process.

984

:

You can't get it perfect the first time.

985

:

It's just not possible, because there

isn't any such thing as perfect.

986

:

So, yeah, and actually I've been

surprised by how much I enjoy adapting

987

:

it each time and putting in little

new things here and there and tweaks.

988

:

So it's more, it's a more enjoyable

process if you Drop that perfectionism,

989

:

but that's probably my second one.

990

:

Another great one.

991

:

Yep.

992

:

I hear you.

993

:

And I do exactly the same in my

program, always changing things and

994

:

always thinking, Oh, I'm spotting this.

995

:

I'm spotting that.

996

:

So yeah, just a great reminder.

997

:

Cause I think at the beginning,

no one will do anything

998

:

unless they know it should be.

999

:

Five sessions or six sessions, or,

you know, like, we just don't know.

:

00:50:28,285 --> 00:50:31,695

We're going to have to take our

best guess and just go for it.

:

00:50:31,725 --> 00:50:32,775

And then we'll see.

:

00:50:34,245 --> 00:50:37,105

And so I suppose the third one that

really leapt out from talking to

:

00:50:37,105 --> 00:50:41,005

you today is about the, the research

part and not really the research

:

00:50:41,015 --> 00:50:45,905

for the content, the research from

potential clients or your audience.

:

00:50:46,265 --> 00:50:50,125

I was so nervous about reaching out

to people to begin with, to ask them

:

00:50:50,155 --> 00:50:51,785

if they do research call with me.

:

00:50:52,145 --> 00:50:55,565

And I was then really shocked

by how lovely people were and

:

00:50:55,565 --> 00:50:56,865

how happy people were to help.

:

00:50:56,865 --> 00:51:01,705

So I just sent out an email saying, I

think you're putting together this program

:

00:51:02,085 --> 00:51:06,105

and if you have 15 minutes just to talk

to me about your challenges at work so

:

00:51:06,105 --> 00:51:07,675

I can design it as well as possible.

:

00:51:07,675 --> 00:51:08,855

I'd be really grateful.

:

00:51:09,065 --> 00:51:12,745

And in return, I can give you a

15 minute laser coaching session.

:

00:51:13,175 --> 00:51:17,920

And, um, Yeah, and it was great and

it was just so invaluable and actually

:

00:51:17,930 --> 00:51:21,160

from the research, some of those people

on those initial calls then went on

:

00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:25,520

to book me for one to one coaching

later, which was really interesting.

:

00:51:25,550 --> 00:51:29,480

And then one person, she ended up booking

me for her colleagues for one to one

:

00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,350

coaching and then she joined Inspiring HR.

:

00:51:32,820 --> 00:51:37,630

So again, it just goes to show

the power of longevity with any of

:

00:51:37,630 --> 00:51:39,480

this stuff, like work you do now.

:

00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:43,050

Even if you only managed to half fill

your program the first time or you

:

00:51:43,060 --> 00:51:44,180

think, Oh, that could have been better.

:

00:51:44,670 --> 00:51:47,220

Or, you know, you're doubting

yourself, the foundational work you

:

00:51:47,220 --> 00:51:50,410

do now, you're still going to reap

the rewards in the future as well.

:

00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:51,770

you don't know yet.

:

00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,220

Oh, that's such a good one.

:

00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:56,390

And I think it's something

we all need to remember.

:

00:51:56,890 --> 00:52:01,090

And certainly me mid a launch now,

because sometimes it's not the right time.

:

00:52:01,090 --> 00:52:04,660

And then September will be a great

time for people or, you know, you

:

00:52:04,660 --> 00:52:08,260

can't always think, Oh, it didn't

work because I've had people.

:

00:52:08,675 --> 00:52:14,795

Years after attending a webinar or

a discovery call, join my program.

:

00:52:14,795 --> 00:52:20,045

So I think that's such a great reminder

that that work will pay off and you

:

00:52:20,045 --> 00:52:24,515

just have to trust that it was all

worth it and everything you're doing

:

00:52:24,515 --> 00:52:26,405

today is going to pay off in the future.

:

00:52:27,245 --> 00:52:28,145

Absolutely.

:

00:52:28,775 --> 00:52:30,545

Thank you so, so much.

:

00:52:30,545 --> 00:52:33,595

There's been loads of comments

saying, thank you so much for sharing

:

00:52:33,595 --> 00:52:34,825

your knowledge and experience.

:

00:52:34,835 --> 00:52:35,415

Loved it.

:

00:52:35,455 --> 00:52:36,875

And it's been amazing.

:

00:52:36,875 --> 00:52:40,125

And I've learned so much myself,

Fay, from you joining today.

:

00:52:40,125 --> 00:52:41,825

So thank you so, so much.

:

00:52:42,195 --> 00:52:43,525

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

:

00:52:43,525 --> 00:52:44,495

It's been really great.

:

00:52:45,085 --> 00:52:46,315

Yeah, you're so welcome.

:

00:52:46,315 --> 00:52:47,125

Speak soon.

:

00:52:47,125 --> 00:52:48,535

Isn't Fay wonderful.

:

00:52:48,535 --> 00:52:52,705

I feel so privileged to have had this

conversation with her and to have learned

:

00:52:52,765 --> 00:52:55,678

so much from her generous learnings.

:

00:52:56,098 --> 00:53:00,838

So if you would like a step-by-step

guide, as well as the love and the care

:

00:53:00,838 --> 00:53:06,918

to make this happen and help you to

build, launch and deliver your own amazing

:

00:53:06,918 --> 00:53:09,318

group coaching program or online course.

:

00:53:09,708 --> 00:53:14,148

Then I'm starting a program on this

on Wednesday, the 13th of March.

:

00:53:14,838 --> 00:53:18,708

The closing date though is

Friday the 8th of March.

:

00:53:18,708 --> 00:53:21,438

So if you are interested in

signing up, you will find the

:

00:53:21,438 --> 00:53:22,818

details in the show notes.

:

00:53:23,178 --> 00:53:28,308

I appreciate as my last minute formula,

I am not giving much time, but if you

:

00:53:28,308 --> 00:53:33,158

hear this prior to Friday, the 8th of

March and would like to join, please sign

:

00:53:33,158 --> 00:53:37,438

up and I look forward to seeing you the

following week to start your online course

:

00:53:37,468 --> 00:53:40,828

or program creation, launch and delivery.

:

00:53:41,828 --> 00:53:45,248

And like I say, at the end of every

episode, trust yourself, believe

:

00:53:45,248 --> 00:53:49,088

in yourself and be the wise Gardner

who keeps on watering the seed.

:

00:53:49,588 --> 00:53:51,568

Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone):

Thank you so much for listening to this

:

00:53:51,568 --> 00:53:53,908

episode of Women in the Coaching Arena.

:

00:53:54,393 --> 00:54:00,685

I have a mess of free resources on

my website joannalottcoaching.com.

:

00:54:01,005 --> 00:54:04,275

That's Joanna with an A

and Lott with two T's.

:

00:54:04,555 --> 00:54:06,745

joannalottcoaching.com.

:

00:54:06,874 --> 00:54:09,214

And I'll also put links in the show notes.

:

00:54:10,714 --> 00:54:13,324

Let me know if you found

this episode useful.

:

00:54:13,354 --> 00:54:16,474

Share it with a friend and

leave me a review, and I will

:

00:54:16,474 --> 00:54:18,394

personally thank you for that.

:

00:54:19,359 --> 00:54:23,619

Remember to trust yourself, believe

in yourself and be the wise Gardner

:

00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:25,559

who keeps on watering the seed.

:

00:54:25,959 --> 00:54:28,839

Get into the arena dare, greatly and try.

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About the Podcast

Women in The Coaching Arena
Helping compassionate coaches to grow their coaching businesses with practical and emotional tools so that more brilliant coaches build brilliant coaching businesses
Are you a coach who's passionate about making a difference and building a thriving coaching business? Join Joanna Lott, a business mentor and ICF certified coach, as she shares practical and emotional tools to help you succeed in the coaching arena.

In each weekly Thursday episode of The Women in the Coaching Arena Podcast, Joanna provides valuable insights and actionable advice on various topics, such as business strategy, marketing, mindset, energy and entrepreneurship. Whether you're just starting or have years of experience, this podcast is for you.

You have a gift that needs to be shared and Joanna is here to help you do it.

About your host

Profile picture for Joanna Lott

Joanna Lott

Joanna Lott helps coaches stand out and get clients - with honesty not hype.

She has 20 years’ experience of working within HR and Governance in trade unions and financial services.

After qualifying as an ICF Executive Coach she set about learning everything she could about business, sales and marketing and quickly built a profitable career and executive coaching business around her young family.

Other coaches started asking her how she did it, so she’s supported 35 coaches in the last year alone to help them to build their business and get clients so they can make a living doing work they love.