111 | Micro-Quitting and Comparisonitis: What’s Really Holding Coaches Back – with Candy Motzek
In this episode, Jo is joined by guest Candy Motzek – former engineer, corporate exec, and now trusted business coach for aspiring coaches. Candy is also the host of She Coaches Coaches and shares such a grounded, generous perspective on what really holds coaches back.
Key Timestamps:
[00:04:00] The Real Reason Coaches Get Stuck
[00:07:00] Micro-Quitting: The Hidden Habit Holding You Back
[00:10:30] The Power of Niching (and Why It Makes Everything Easier)
[00:14:30] Overcoming the Fear of Visibility
[00:16:00] Coaching vs Mentoring: How to Balance Both
[00:27:00] Do You Really Have to Coach Coaches to Succeed?
Key Quotes from the Episode:
“Mindset is about perspective – how I think about myself and my life. Is it supporting me, or getting in my way?” – Candy Motzek
“Coaching is the back door. The front door is the tangible offer that gets people in – then you can do the deeper work.” – Jo Lott
Candy Motzek Podacst - She Coaches Coaches
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to Women in the Coaching arena podcast.
Speaker A:I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker A:I'm Jo Lott, a business mentor and ICF accredited coach and I help coaches to build brilliant businesses.
Speaker A:I know that when you prepare to enter the arena there is fear, self doubt, comparison, anxiety, uncertainty.
Speaker A:You can tend to armor up and protect yourself from vulnerability.
Speaker A:In this podcast I'll be sharing honest, not hype practice practical and emotional tools to support you to make the difference that you're here for dare greatly you belong in this arena.
Speaker A:Hello, welcome to episode 111 of Women in the Coaching Arena.
Speaker A:I am so glad you are here.
Speaker A:I'm really excited today to have a guest on called Candy Motsek.
Speaker A:Candy has a podcast called she Coaches Coaches and she does very similar work to me helping coaches to create the clarity, confidence and courage to become a a successful coach and go for their dreams.
Speaker A:In this episode, Candy will share how she encourages her clients to get the mindset and the coaching and strategies that you need to build a profitable coaching business from scratch.
Speaker A:It was also super fun to talk to someone who does similar work and see if there are any differences between the types of things I focus on and the types of things that Candy focuses on with coaches clients.
Speaker A:So I hope you enjoy this conversation.
Speaker B:Hi Candy, thank you so much for agreeing to speak on Women in the Coaching Arena.
Speaker B:I am so glad you are here.
Speaker B:How are you today?
Speaker C:Oh, I am well and I'm so excited for our conversation.
Speaker C:Really looking forward to it.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker B:Candy is the business coach and trusted mentor for aspired coaches.
Speaker B:So we have a lot in common and I cannot wait to see the differences that there may be between Canada and the UK where we are both based.
Speaker B:Kandy was also a former corporate executive and engineer and combines her extensive business experience with her amazing coaching and business skills as well.
Speaker B:So welcome Candy.
Speaker B:I cannot wait to get started.
Speaker B:Tell me how you came into your coaching business.
Speaker C:Yeah, so I had a great job and everything about my job was so wonderful on the outside and, and, and it was wonderful for a while.
Speaker C:I had the title, I had a great salary, a great team, you know, all those things that you're supposed to feel satisfied with.
Speaker C:The only problem was after a few years it started to really look good on the outside and it really felt terrible on the inside.
Speaker C:I had grown to feel very dissatisfied with my life and that was super confusing and so my journey from that was down that path of personal development.
Speaker C:Who am I?
Speaker C:What do I coaching?
Speaker C:Sort of showed up and I thought I would give it a try.
Speaker C:And I loved it.
Speaker C:And I think that that's how many coaches start, Right.
Speaker C:It's just like we have these coaching conversations and there's something so magnetic and magical and powerful and we just want more of that kind of connection, Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, totally.
Speaker B:I was doing a social post today about the client's journey.
Speaker B:And I was saying, for example, if you're a career coach, it might not be that person that's just miserable at their desk.
Speaker B:It might be the person who's a bit further along, who's already started to look at personal development books.
Speaker B:So it's interesting how you came to coaching and you went on that journey prior to making that change.
Speaker C:Yes, exactly.
Speaker C:I think I still have all these personal development books.
Speaker C:They're ancient now, so when I started out, there wasn't that many.
Speaker C:But now that self help section is massive in the bookstores, right?
Speaker B:Oh, totally, yes.
Speaker B:And so you have helped probably hundreds of coaches now over the years.
Speaker B:So I would love to know what are the biggest hurdles that stop coaches from achieving success in their coaching business?
Speaker C:Yeah, you and I speak to similar people.
Speaker C:So many people who want to be coaches, they're looking for the how to, you know, the strategy, the tips, the technical side of it.
Speaker C:And that is really important.
Speaker C:But what I found is that the bigger challenge is what happens between our ears, you know, like, what's happening in our head that holds us back.
Speaker C:And there's a number of different mindset hurdles.
Speaker C:I know that that word mindset sounds kind of hackneyed now, like it's a word we hear over and over.
Speaker C:But for me, mindset is about perspective.
Speaker C:How I think about myself and how I think about my life.
Speaker C:And is it supportive?
Speaker C:Like, does it help me to create a life and a business that I feel really aligned with, or is it getting in my way?
Speaker C:Are the words in my head saying something that doesn't support me?
Speaker C:So big hurdles that I see are that so often we get distracted.
Speaker C:And this happens at all levels.
Speaker C:No matter where you are in your coaching practice, there's a good next step for you.
Speaker C:And most of the time, that good next step is you should go sign some clients so that you can make some money and coach them.
Speaker C:But what happens is that we get really distracted and we think that we need a beautiful brand and that we need a gorgeous website, and then our lead magnet needs to be good, and then we need to have a great email sequence to go with it.
Speaker C:And those things are important, but if you don't have any clients, they're not important yet.
Speaker C:And so we get so easily distracted by these shiny objects and they'll take us down the path of doing really interesting, entertaining work.
Speaker C:But they actually hold us back from doing the thing that we wanted to do, which was coach, work with people, support people, help people have a better life.
Speaker C:So that's one that I see a lot.
Speaker C:Do you notice that a lot with the people you work with, too?
Speaker B:Yeah, totally.
Speaker B:No one ever wants to do one lead magnet.
Speaker B:They want to do five.
Speaker B:Like, I don't think I've got five.
Speaker B:And I've been going for quite a few years now.
Speaker B:So, you know, let's just start with one.
Speaker B:So I do think, yeah, great.
Speaker B:Get it done.
Speaker B:Just get something going, but then move on as quickly as possible.
Speaker B:Speaking to real people is what's going to make the difference.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker C:And so guilty with the multiple lead magnets.
Speaker C:I don't even know the number that I have.
Speaker C:It might be 20.
Speaker C:It might be more like once you create a really good lead magnet, then you get another great idea for another one.
Speaker C:And the seasons are changing, the world is changing.
Speaker C:What's going to attract people?
Speaker C:Same people, but they're looking for something.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So just.
Speaker C:I'm guilty of the multiple lead magnets.
Speaker C:The second big hurdle that I see coaches with is this thing that I say is quitting in advance.
Speaker C:And so quitting in advance or micro quitting is this time where it's a business and we're doing something new and we don't really feel confident or adept at it yet.
Speaker C:And so it gets hard.
Speaker C:And sometimes we feel disappointed and sometimes we feel a little discouraged, and sometimes we might feel a bit adrift.
Speaker C:In those times we start to second guess.
Speaker C:Maybe this isn't meant for me.
Speaker C:Maybe this is too hard.
Speaker C:Maybe, you know what, I'm really.
Speaker C:I really could be happy with my job.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I really should be spending more time with my kids.
Speaker C:Maybe I should wait until fall.
Speaker C:So all these, like, second guessing and qualifying whether now is the right time, every time we put our energy into that, I feel like that is a little micro quit because we haven't been decisive, we haven't made a commitment to ourselves and to our goal.
Speaker C:And so when we move our energy into that maybe not state, then we move away from solution.
Speaker C:We give into those feelings of discouragement or disappointment or maybe a bit of confusion, and that slows us down.
Speaker C:And so that's one of the reasons that hurdle really comes up a lot for the people that I work with.
Speaker C:What about you?
Speaker C:Do you see that micro quitting or do you call it something different?
Speaker B:I call it the dip.
Speaker B:You've probably read the book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because you start up here with your confidence sky high.
Speaker B:You've got no idea how hard it's going to be.
Speaker B:And then you're like, oh, my gosh, there's so much to learn.
Speaker B:So you go in that massive dip.
Speaker B:So I had a call with my clients yesterday, and I do this CEO scorecard with them, and one of the people who started in January said, I think my scores were worse now than they were then, which is not a good advertisement I'm probably putting out here.
Speaker B:But in other words, she was so naive, she had no idea.
Speaker B:Fresh out of coach training, sky high, and then you're like, wow, I've got to learn lead magnets, websites, social, how to do networking.
Speaker B:She's just done her first webinar today, so, you know, she's going through so much change.
Speaker B:Therefore, you are going to feel nervous, anxious, like your scores are going to be low.
Speaker C:Yeah, totally.
Speaker C:And I know that when I finished coach training, I kind of left that and thought, oh, everybody wants coaching.
Speaker C:Coaching is so great.
Speaker C:Nobody wants coaching.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Everybody wants a solution for something that's going on in their life.
Speaker C:And it took me a while to learn that.
Speaker C:So that's, you know, that's a place where the dip really comes in, is this place of, I love coaching, but nobody wants what I love.
Speaker C:Why not?
Speaker C:What's going on here?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So that's a huge learning experience, for sure.
Speaker B:And how have you handled that with clients and encouraged them to niche or do you encourage them to niche?
Speaker C:Yeah, I am really big on encouraging people to niche because it makes their life easier.
Speaker C:When they niche, they have some person that they're talking to about a specific challenge that that individual wants help with.
Speaker C:And that makes everything easier.
Speaker C:It makes your content creation easier, it makes designing your program so much easier, and it helps you to narrow down and really get mentally and emotionally connected with that dream client.
Speaker C:What would they need to hear from me today to make that next step?
Speaker C:What are they struggling with?
Speaker C:And everything is so much easier from that standpoint.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I'm a total big on niche person.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Same here.
Speaker B:Same here.
Speaker B:I would love to hear a client's success story and why you feel like they were successful.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I was just working with a lady.
Speaker C:She's just graduated and she has an amazing history as a casting director for reality tv.
Speaker C:And at first when she told me what she did, I was so surprised.
Speaker C:Because it felt really like an unusual type of niche.
Speaker C:So she has this experience, but then what I hadn't realized is that she's one of the most loving, empathic, kind people I have met in a long time.
Speaker C:And so, you know, we worked together over a number of months, and she was creating her program and her lead magnet and her website and all of those things.
Speaker C:But a few weeks ago, she said to me, I can't believe how easy everything is now, that I chose my niche.
Speaker C:And we'd been going back and forth, you know, like, I can't make anybody do anything.
Speaker C:But she kept wanting to sort of open up the boundaries of who she worked with and what she helped them with, because she has a lot of skills.
Speaker C:But then once she made that decision, everything became easier.
Speaker C:And so then, of course, signing clients was easier for her too.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so just that allowing somebody to go on their own journey, I can tell them what I think is the right thing, but it's only when they agree that they're going to do it do we have that collaboration.
Speaker C:And then for her to come back and, like, she was just bubbling, I can't believe how easy this is now.
Speaker C:And, like, just made me so happy.
Speaker C:That success alone and then knowing that it is going to be in the future, so much easier for her to sign clients.
Speaker C:And it already is.
Speaker C:But she's a lovely person and she has so much knowledge and so much depth to her that now she can have that impact.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:She.
Speaker C:She had been having some impact, but now she can really go deep on it.
Speaker C:And that I find so satisfying.
Speaker B:Yeah, totally.
Speaker B:You can finally create your lead magnet and website when you have a niche.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker B:How do you handle people who have a fear of being visible when it comes to starting to market their business once they've niched?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So common.
Speaker C:One of the ways that I handle it is I let them know that it's normal.
Speaker C:I work with men and women, but for women in particular, there is this hesitation of being seen.
Speaker C:And once we can normalize it and they can talk about why they might be worried about being visible.
Speaker C:In some cases, there's a perceived danger, both physical and emotional danger.
Speaker C:But when they know that it's a common concern, then they can kind of relax.
Speaker C:The other thing that I suggest to them is that they don't have to go from zero to a hundred.
Speaker C:They can decide, okay, I am willing to show up in this way.
Speaker C:This way feels like a stretch.
Speaker C:I'm stretched, but I'm not broken at that point.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like I'm not snapped apart.
Speaker C:And so maybe an easy first step is writing something.
Speaker C:You know, showing up on video can be very nerve wracking for somebody, but maybe they can write a small thing.
Speaker C:Maybe if they're really nervous, they can even just do a great job of creating relationships throughing great comments.
Speaker C:I know there's lots of people that I work with that do really wonderful comments on LinkedIn and build relationships from that.
Speaker C:So they can start small, they can decide where their nervous system is, what's too scary for them, and also maybe a little bit about why it might be so scary.
Speaker C:Once they understand it, then they can create their own safety and take the steps that work for them.
Speaker B:I love the idea of being able to figure out where their own nervous system is at because like you say, that's what you have to do.
Speaker B:And comments on LinkedIn is such a great way of doing that without creating your own post if you don't feel ready for that yet.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Another challenge I find.
Speaker B:So I know you're an ICF PCC coach and I'm an ICF coach as well.
Speaker B:And obviously you learn the rules of coaching and never tell anyone what to do and don't have any structure and the client leads.
Speaker B:How have you managed to balance that with building a business or helping your clients to balance that with building a business?
Speaker C:Yeah, and I struggled with that a lot because I really believe in the value of pure coaching.
Speaker C:Like this place where we just hold space and we ask questions and we allow the client to come to their own realizations and decide on their own actions and what they want.
Speaker C:So while I fully believe and ascribe to that at times, that does not serve my client and that's the place that I've resolved it.
Speaker C:So I am really clear when I am coaching, pure coaching.
Speaker C:But then I have other hats that I wear and I'm conscious about which hat I'm putting on.
Speaker C:Is my hat the trusted mentor hat?
Speaker C:Is it the instructor hat?
Speaker C:Is it the guide?
Speaker C:And so literally when I, when I was struggling with this is, I would visually take off one hat.
Speaker C:Do you mind if I put on my advisor hat right now?
Speaker C:And here's why.
Speaker C:Lots of times the coach has a lifetime of experience and if you're working with a client who has come to you for coaching and they don't have any understanding about that greater picture.
Speaker C:So a perfect example is if you're in a senior leadership position, you kind of know the ropes about how to navigate the world.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But if you've got somebody who is brand new, who has never been in a leadership position, they don't know what they don't know.
Speaker C:And so sometimes a little bit of guidance, then they can make their own educated opinion about how they want to go about it.
Speaker C:So it's really conscious about, am I okay to coach you right now?
Speaker C:Do I have your permission to coach, or are you okay if I share a little bit of my experience?
Speaker C:And they can always say yes or no, but I find that just really delineating the roles really helps.
Speaker C:So that's my version.
Speaker C:And then that is what I try to show my clients as well.
Speaker C:That back to this.
Speaker C:People don't buy coaching, they buy solutions.
Speaker C:They buy a result, they buy an outcome.
Speaker C:And so if you are maybe a health coach, it's great to be coaching your client on how they're feeling about their health and maybe what they want to do about movement.
Speaker C:But if you know full well that a menopausal woman needs to build muscle mass to help with their bone density, you want to be able to impart that knowledge to them.
Speaker C:So you, you know, you have to balance those roles.
Speaker C:Does that help, Joanna?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's really good.
Speaker B:I often talk about it as the front door and back door.
Speaker B:We need to get them in the front door with your signature coaching office, with your marketing, which is a bit more tangible.
Speaker B:And usually by the time they've come in, you can show them the back door.
Speaker B:You might say, great, we're due to be talking about your strengths today if you've created a leadership coaching program.
Speaker B:But what's on your mind is how I advise my clients to do it, because clearly, if they've got a job interview or they're having a terrible day, they don't want to talk about this trend.
Speaker B:So I've found that way of describing it often helps.
Speaker C:I love that metaphor.
Speaker C:That's a great one.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's so visual.
Speaker C:Like, it's like I get it right away.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I'm sure your clients do as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, totally.
Speaker B:It's really helped.
Speaker B:I would love to hear your journey into coaching and niching and have you changed niche and what's led you to where you are now?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So my journey into coaching took a while.
Speaker C:I had a great job.
Speaker C:It looked great on the outside.
Speaker C:It felt good on the inside for quite a while.
Speaker C:And then as time went on, it really didn't.
Speaker C:And I think a lot of that is that I realized that my values were not in alignment with the role that I was doing.
Speaker C:And so that created a lot of tension for me.
Speaker C:I went down the personal development route of, who am I?
Speaker C:What do I want?
Speaker C:Also, I got coaching myself.
Speaker C:I hired a coach, you know, and so I experienced coaching from that perspective.
Speaker C:And then I was working with.
Speaker C:With a guy, and he said to me, candy, I took this coach training.
Speaker C:You should do this.
Speaker C:This is totally you.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, that's so sweet that he would say that.
Speaker C:So then I went and I looked at it, and then I went and looked at how much it cost to take the training, and I was like, okay, not yet.
Speaker C:Like, not right now.
Speaker C:Car needs a repair, whatever is happening.
Speaker C:But I went back and looked at that.
Speaker C:I don't even know, maybe half a dozen times, and had that same dynamic, looked at it and went, this looks so interesting.
Speaker C:And then talked myself out of it.
Speaker C:Until one day I was on a cruise with my mom and my daughter.
Speaker C:It was a fabulous cruise.
Speaker C:We left from Santiago, Chile, and went to Antarctica and then back up through the Falkland Islands into Buenos Aires.
Speaker C:And it was amazing.
Speaker C:And I realized as we were rounding the Cape, which is horrible rough water, we didn't even know if we'd be able to go outside.
Speaker C:And, you know, all the chairs would be thrown around on the deck because it was so rough.
Speaker C:And so on the day that we did this passage, it was flat calm, and it was sunny, and it was about 18 degrees.
Speaker C:And I realized that there was all this talk about how scary it was going to be and how rough it was going to be and how limiting it was going to be.
Speaker C:And in the end, it was a breeze.
Speaker C:And so I was like, oh, I think there's a story there.
Speaker C:I think there's less there for me.
Speaker C:Like, all this worry was really just my imagination.
Speaker C:And so I came back from that cruise, and literally, I phoned this company and said, I really want to do this training.
Speaker C:And they said, well, it's full.
Speaker C:And I was like, okay.
Speaker C:And then the next day, they phoned me and they said, there's a spot.
Speaker C:Do you want it?
Speaker C:And I was like, yes.
Speaker C:And so literally, as soon as I made the decision, it all worked out.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was just kind of.
Speaker C:It's a funny story when you realize how much you get in your own head holding yourself back from doing the thing.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, totally.
Speaker B:And then when you came out of coach training, what was your initial niche or how did your journey lead to where you are now?
Speaker C:Oh, sorry.
Speaker C:If anybody can hear my sigh, it's because I thought coaching was amazing.
Speaker C:And I really wanted to do it.
Speaker C:And I am the prime example of the person who thought that coaching was going to be the best thing ever.
Speaker C:It was going to be so easy.
Speaker C:And so I was working on a certification program, and I had to have five paying clients for this program.
Speaker C:And I had, I don't know, a couple of months to get these clients.
Speaker C:And it didn't have to be a lot.
Speaker C:It, you know, it could just be a small amount of money, Just that exchange of value that was important.
Speaker C:Well, the deadline came and I had signed nobody.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, my gosh, what is going on here?
Speaker C:Like, that was so humiliating.
Speaker C:So they gave me an extension.
Speaker C:And that was when I realized that people don't buy coaching.
Speaker C:You know, they're buying something else, something that they want.
Speaker C:And so I shifted how I spoke to people in those days.
Speaker C:I knew leadership and I knew corporate.
Speaker C:And so I, you know, I went with, what do I know?
Speaker C:I know that there's lots of people in leadership who are burned out and desperately unhappy.
Speaker C:So that's who I worked with.
Speaker C:And then over time, coaches started asking me for help, and I was like, oh, coaches love personal development and coaches love coaching.
Speaker C:That's fun.
Speaker C:So then I made that shift to working with coaches.
Speaker C:I don't know about you.
Speaker C:Is that one of the reasons you got into working with coaches as well?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's just that natural evolution that happens in any job you start, you do it, people then contact you saying, how are you managing this?
Speaker B:Because I started in executive coaching, then moved to career coaching and some outplacement work with organizations when they're making staff redundant and things.
Speaker B:And I just kept noticing that when people booked a career coaching session, I was just so excited if they wanted to start their own business, because obviously that's what I had done.
Speaker B:And I was just obsessed by people doing the same.
Speaker B:So little by little, I was spending five hours a week helping people with the business side because I was, like, all over it.
Speaker B:I'd found my absolute passion and therefore started my program.
Speaker B:Two people.
Speaker B:It's grown slowly, slowly.
Speaker B:Eventually you have to make that hard decision to solely niche your website and things.
Speaker B:And then it felt so scary because obviously you spent years building up this other work.
Speaker B:But behind the scenes, if I want to do some career work, I can, because people will refer all that kind of stuff 100%.
Speaker C:And the other thing is, I like that metaphor of it's your shop.
Speaker C:And so, you know, the windows are open, the.
Speaker C:The entryway is nice and clean, and it's and it's well decorated, so it's very welcoming for people.
Speaker C:And then once they're in for executive coaching, career coaching, any kind of coaching, they're going to talk to you about their life, all the aspects of their life.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so it really is just the welcome sign.
Speaker C:But then once you've got a trusted space with your client, they talk about their kids and their partner and, you know, and all the, all the things.
Speaker B:And I love that totally.
Speaker B:And as we're both talking about coaching coaches, you will know that there's obviously lots of hype in the industry and eventually lots of coaches can think the only way to succeed is to coach other coaches.
Speaker B:So I would love to hear your perspective on that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And there's a whole story about that.
Speaker C:So I have a lot of opinions.
Speaker C:But at the top level, what I think happens is that people think it should be easier than it is to build a business.
Speaker C:And so they might make a start on some type of coaching practice.
Speaker C:And they run up against some challenges, which are normal, but we don't like challenges.
Speaker C:We like it to move smoothly and fast and the dream client just walks in the door and all of a sudden we're fully booked.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:That's what we want, but that's not what happens.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so those people get discouraged.
Speaker C:And so they look around and start to wonder if maybe there's something wrong with them, if there's something wrong with their program, if maybe they shouldn't be doing it.
Speaker C:And they can get quite discouraged at the same time because of the vacuum of social media and the way the algorithms work.
Speaker C:If I'm interested in coaching, all I see are coaches and ads for coaches.
Speaker C:And so I think that it's reality that those are the only people out there, because those social media platforms keep showing me successful coaches and I say successful.
Speaker C:And if you could see me, they've got air quotes around it because we don't know who's spending money on advertising or spending a lot of energy on social media.
Speaker C:And we really don't know what the behind the scenes of their business looks like.
Speaker C:And so lots of times people start to get that impression that you have to coach coaches to be successful.
Speaker C:It's just not true.
Speaker C:What is true is that a coach helps their dream client get the outcome they want more quickly than they could do it on their own.
Speaker C:And if I was a fabulous coach and I worked with, say, executives who were trying to make that transition into the C suite, you are never, ever, ever going to see me advertising What I'm doing because I'm behind closed doors talking to my client, I'm behind closed doors talking to her and saying, how do you feel at that board meeting?
Speaker C:What's going on?
Speaker C:What's your strategy?
Speaker C:Right, so you don't even see those people.
Speaker C:So you.
Speaker C:We've got so much slanted by social media, Google, any search engine, they show us more of what we're looking for.
Speaker C:So we think that that's true and I don't think it is.
Speaker C:What do you, what do you think on this big topic for coaches?
Speaker B:Yeah, totally.
Speaker B:And I thought, yeah, we can't have this conversation without talking about it.
Speaker B:I haven't personally coached any other business coaches yet and I've coached probably 150 plus people now.
Speaker B:So all of my coaches are generally leadership coaches, career coaches, executive coaches, which obviously we changed the title slightly to niche, Niche down further, but you get the point.
Speaker B:And I've had clients that are more successful than me now, which I absolutely love.
Speaker B:So it's just finding those role models who manage to succeed and showcasing them often, which is what I do after they've worked with me, create case studies.
Speaker B:Because I do think you need to see it to be it.
Speaker B:And I don't see so many people out there showcasing what they're doing and I think it's because they feel nervous to shout about how much money they are making as a leadership coach or an executive coach, for example.
Speaker B:Whereas business coaches want to showcase that because people like that when they're a business.
Speaker B:You know, when you're going to work with someone, you want to think, oh, they're successful, they're making all this money, I'll work with them.
Speaker B:Whereas my clients often ask me to edit out, which is very frustrating if they ever say, I made this much money in the period of working together, because then they go, I don't want any of my clients to see me talking about money.
Speaker B:So I do think we probably just need to see more evidence of other coaches succeeding out there.
Speaker B:And how can we keep encouraging people to speak up and showcase?
Speaker C:That's really interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's super interesting.
Speaker C:I hadn't thought about it in that way.
Speaker C:It is so rare to hear somebody say, I made x7 figures, but they never use the word profit.
Speaker C:And so it's like you can make a lot of revenue and spend 99% of it on ads.
Speaker C:What are you left with?
Speaker C:You know, it's just a number and we don't actually know what that number means and we sometimes don't Even know if that number is 100% true.
Speaker C:I have created seven figures when I add up all 10 years of my business and it's only revenue.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There's a lot of room for massaging those numbers as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker B:It drives me absolutely crazy when I see that.
Speaker B:And I've seen someone call herself a seven figure coach and like you say, she's adding up all of these years.
Speaker B:We, we're probably all therefore 7 figure if we add up everything we've earned in our whole life.
Speaker B:So it's just crazy, crazy stuff.
Speaker B:If you were talking to a newer coach, maybe starting out now, what would be your advice to them?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yay.
Speaker C:I'm so glad, I'm so glad that you decided to be a coach.
Speaker C:That's where it starts.
Speaker C:And my advice is it is not saturated.
Speaker C:There's 8 billion people on this planet and the vast majority of them, if they knew that they could get help with their challenges, they would do it.
Speaker C:So my advice to them is you're in the right place.
Speaker C:You're going to get to do work that you love to do.
Speaker C:Make sure that you do your own personal work.
Speaker C:What are your values?
Speaker C:What is your mission, your reason for becoming a coach and learning to tune into your own intuition, your own decision making capability.
Speaker C:You want to be building something that's right for you, not something that's right for somebody else's desire.
Speaker C:So you're in the right place.
Speaker C:It will take some time.
Speaker C:The thing that you want to do is you want to be really clear on what you're going to focus on.
Speaker C:And the first thing to always focus on is clients.
Speaker C:And the reason that we work with clients is because that's the work we want to do.
Speaker C:It gives us money to fund the rest of our business.
Speaker C:And we also get the benefit that working with clients is some of the best market research possible.
Speaker C:Because we can ask people questions, a lot of questions, and that is great market research.
Speaker C:But when somebody has paid us to support them, then we really see what those challenges are.
Speaker C:We really hear their real language.
Speaker C:So new coaches, welcome.
Speaker C:You're in the right spot.
Speaker C:Build the business that's right for, for you.
Speaker C:Work with a partner that will help you do that instead of trying to force you to do it some other way.
Speaker C:And work with clients, make money and rinse and repeat.
Speaker C:Basically.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker B:And if people are saying, how do I get the clients to work with?
Speaker B:What would you say then?
Speaker C:So I always suggest people start with their warm circle.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Talk to the people you Know, but don't say, hey, Auntie Jane, do you want to be my coaching client?
Speaker C:I am doing this new thing.
Speaker C:Who do you know that could use some support in this area?
Speaker C:Like in your example where you went from executive to career coaching.
Speaker C:Who do you know that is interested in making a career shift or is looking for a promotion?
Speaker C:Could you introduce me?
Speaker C:So I always start with warm circle first because that's the easiest.
Speaker C:That's the easiest way.
Speaker B:So simple, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yet it's the one that most people want to avoid, I've found.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:I know you have a unique perspective on fear and confidence for coaches.
Speaker B:I would love you to expand on that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So we all will wait.
Speaker C:You know, we might be nervous, we might be worried, we might be experiencing fear or anxiety and we want to wait until it goes away before we take action.
Speaker C:And that's the thing.
Speaker C:It just doesn't work that way.
Speaker C:Fear does not go away because we wait.
Speaker C:It just grows and grows and grows and holds you back.
Speaker C:And so the way past fear is to instead ask for courage, look for your courage muscle and start to do those small actions.
Speaker C:And then before you know it, that fear isn't as big as you thought it was.
Speaker C:And I feel that way about confidence because fear and confidence kind of go hand in hand.
Speaker C:Is that the way to get confident is to get adept at doing the thing, adept at writing the post or making an offer or doing a presentation.
Speaker C:And the only way we get adept is when we get courageous enough to take the step and get started.
Speaker C:And so if you're feeling nervous, if you're feeling self doubt, it is an emotion that is a common emotion that we all feel.
Speaker C:And know that your fastest way away from that is to go through it.
Speaker C:So ask yourself to be courageous first.
Speaker C:That's the.
Speaker C:That's the difference.
Speaker B:Yeah, love it.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker B:The only way is through it.
Speaker C:Oh, years ago I was in Acapulco and that's the place where they have the cliff divers, the famous cliff divers.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, cliff drivers, cool.
Speaker C:You know, and then I walked up to and watched what these people are doing and they clamber up these rocks and they have like a little tiny toehold and then they have to wait to dive when the wave is just at the right spot.
Speaker C:So not only are they precariously balanced, but they have to wait for exactly the right thing.
Speaker C:So like, to me, that is so fear inducing.
Speaker C:But they've practiced it over and over and over again and they didn't dive every Time, maybe they were there with a friend who said, see, look at how the wave is breaking.
Speaker C:You got to look for that or avoid that.
Speaker C:And so they just kept going.
Speaker C:And that is how they have the confidence to go and do these dives that look crazy to me.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I think that, you know, that one really stuck with me watching these people dive into the oceans.
Speaker C:Amazing, I bet.
Speaker B:So true, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's just tiny steps, but you can't always see that when you're in it.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker B:Lastly, I would love to talk about comparison.
Speaker B:And when you can go online and you feel like everyone else is managing this and you're the only one that's not.
Speaker B:Have you got any tips around that?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's a lie.
Speaker C:Bluntly is social media and Google and websites, you know, that's our best foot forward.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:That's the place where those people that are posting frequently and looking all happy and like they've got it all together, we're really just seeing the outside of the package and we have no idea what's really going on in their life, how they're really feeling, what they're really struggling with.
Speaker C:And so to try and compare your insides with the outside that you see on social media is always going to do you a disservice because you're always going to feel more nervous inside and just know that you're never going to know exactly how they feel.
Speaker C:So the less time you can spend comparing yourself, the better.
Speaker C:And the way that I do that is I literally remove the apps from.
Speaker C:From my phone.
Speaker C:As soon as I want to reinstall that app, it'll be right there and I can go and, you know, interact and do the things that I'm meant to do, but it'll means that I don't scroll and I'm not sort of looking and going, ooh, that person's got a nice website.
Speaker C:Ooh, that person's got a what?
Speaker C:That's a great program.
Speaker C:It doesn't do me any good.
Speaker C:I know my clients, I know how to help them.
Speaker C:And so I just remove the app.
Speaker C:Works like a charm.
Speaker B:That's such a great idea, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I do think, for me, anyway, eventually, I don't ever really look at anybody else now, but I certainly did at the beginning and I thought, how am I ever going to compete with someone like that?
Speaker B:That's got the shiniest photos and the clearest face and, you know, all of the things.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker C:But I.
Speaker C:And I agree that I'm okay, now, but the next step, like the next evolution that my business goes through, whenever that is, I'll be right back in that place where I'm comparing myself again.
Speaker C:Like it's.
Speaker C:My brain just likes to do that.
Speaker B:So definitely.
Speaker B:Great reminder.
Speaker B:So finally, what is one exercise that someone listening can do today to gain clarity or move forward in their business?
Speaker C:Journaling is always great and simple questions.
Speaker C:What do I want?
Speaker C:Which is sometimes the hardest question.
Speaker C:Who am I?
Speaker C:And what do I want?
Speaker C:And when you start to ask yourself these questions that don't really have one answer and you get to dig a little bit deeper into who you are, it works and you start to get clear because the true you starts to sort of rise to the surface.
Speaker C:So that's my recommendation.
Speaker B:Oh, I love it.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, Candy.
Speaker B:I'm going to go and do that exercise myself right now.
Speaker B:So thank you so much for being here.
Speaker B:Where can people find you if they want to keep in touch?
Speaker C:The best way is to come and listen to my podcast.
Speaker C:It's called she Coaches Coaches.
Speaker C:Yes, it's a mouthful and so it's on.
Speaker C:All the players come and listen to my podcast and listen to some episodes and there's lots of ways to get in touch with me, but that's the easiest way.
Speaker B:Fabulous.
Speaker B:And I will share the link in the show notes as well.
Speaker B:Thank you so, so much, Candy.
Speaker B:It was wonderful to talk.
Speaker C:Thank you for having me.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Women in the Coaching Arena.
Speaker A:I have a mass of free resources on my website.
Speaker A:JoannaLottCoaching.com that's Joanna with an A and Lott with two Ts.
Speaker A:JoannaLottCoaching dot com and I'll also put links in the show notes below.
Speaker A:Let me know if you found this episode useful.
Speaker A:Share it with a friend and leave me a review and I will personally thank you for that.
Speaker A:We're Remember to trust yourself, believe in yourself and be the wise gardener who keeps on watering the seed.
Speaker A:Get into the arena, dare greatly and try.
