66 | Behind the Scenes: Zoe Fenn shares her business building journey

Speaker: 00:00:00

Hello and welcome to Women in

the Coaching Arena podcast.

2

: 00:00:04

I'm so glad you are here.

3

: 00:00:06

I'm Jo Lott, a business mentor

and ICF accredited coach

4

: 00:00:10

Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone):

and I help coaches to

5

: 00:00:11

build brilliant businesses.

6

: 00:00:14

I know that when you prepare to enter

the arena, there is fear, self doubt,

7

: 00:00:19

comparison, anxiety, uncertainty.

8

: 00:00:23

You can tend to armor up and

protect yourself from vulnerability.

9

: 00:00:29

In this podcast, I'll be sharing

honest, not hype, practical and

10

: 00:00:32

emotional tools to support you to make

the difference that you are here for.

11

: 00:00:37

Dare greatly.

12

: 00:00:38

You belong in this arena.

13

: 00:00:41

Welcome to the 66th episode of

women in the coaching arena.

14

: 00:00:45

I am so glad you are here.

15

: 00:00:47

I was brainstorming what to record

for you on this Saturday morning?

16

: 00:00:52

And was going to do five strategic

steps or something along these lines.

17

: 00:00:57

I just wasn't feeling like.

18

: 00:01:00

Doing five strategic steps.

19

: 00:01:02

Maybe because it's the weekend and I'm

not feeling particularly strategic today.

20

: 00:01:06

Instead, I browse my case studies

and cannot believe I have not

21

: 00:01:10

yet shared my client zoe Fenn's

amazing story on this podcast.

22

: 00:01:15

Zoe helps develop strong first

time leaders in insight agencies.

23

: 00:01:20

She was an absolute joy to work with.

24

: 00:01:24

I think the key parts of her story

that I'll share with you for me are.

25

: 00:01:30

That it doesn't matter

how much we think we know.

26

: 00:01:33

It's really hard to do

this stuff on your own.

27

: 00:01:36

And Zoe had already had 15 years

experience, pretty much doing what I

28

: 00:01:41

teach in my program, but finding that is

actually really hard to do it yourself

29

: 00:01:46

because you get in your head, we've got

our emotions and our feelings involved.

30

: 00:01:51

And that there's so much more to learn

about running a business, even in

31

: 00:01:55

terms of the ins and outs of running

it, as well as generating clients.

32

: 00:02:00

Zoe's case study also means a lot to me.

33

: 00:02:03

Because it's the model testimonial that,

you know, if you do the exercise and.

34

: 00:02:11

Someone says, what would you want a client

to share about you after working with you?

35

: 00:02:15

And then like begin with the end in mind?

36

: 00:02:17

Well, this for me is everything

I could ever wish and more.

37

: 00:02:21

So thank you so much Zoe.

38

: 00:02:24

It's also worth sharing in case you

are one of those people like I was

39

: 00:02:28

when I started my business working

two days a week around my really young

40

: 00:02:31

children that Zoe did all of this

inside my program with two days a week

41

: 00:02:37

childcare and two children under five.

42

: 00:02:40

So hats off to you Zoe.

43

: 00:02:42

You have done an amazing job,

and I cannot imagine what you

44

: 00:02:45

were build as you continue to get

more time as your children grow.

45

: 00:02:50

Hi Zoe, thank you so much for agreeing

to reflect on your journey with me.

46

: 00:02:54

Do share a bit about yourself.

47

: 00:02:57

Ah, well, I set up the

business a year ago.

48

: 00:03:00

Oh, this is just my

professional self, isn't it?

49

: 00:03:02

How much do you want to know?

50

: 00:03:03

So professional me set up the business

a year ago after having my two children.

51

: 00:03:08

And I set up the business because

I wanted to support people who were

52

: 00:03:12

transitioning into management and

leadership roles within the research

53

: 00:03:16

and insight industry that I used to

work in prior to having my family.

54

: 00:03:20

And what was going on for you prior

to joining the business of coaching?

55

: 00:03:25

What was going on was that I was

really enjoying what I was doing.

56

: 00:03:31

I felt like I was in the right

ballpark because I was enjoying it,

57

: 00:03:37

but I spent a lot of time in my head.

58

: 00:03:44

Debating what course of action was

best to start really growing the

59

: 00:03:49

business and translate my coaching

skills and my 15 year career in

60

: 00:03:56

research and insight into a business

proposition that people wanted to buy.

61

: 00:04:04

I had so many different pathways in

my head as to how I could do that.

62

: 00:04:08

And yeah, I was just spending a lot of

time going a little bit into one direction

63

: 00:04:14

and then pulling back a bit and then going

a little bit to another and pulling back

64

: 00:04:17

a bit and feeling a little bit frustrated.

65

: 00:04:20

With that just, just frustration really

that I felt like I hadn't crystallized

66

: 00:04:26

what I was about and how to go

about really building the business.

67

: 00:04:32

And what was the impact of that?

68

: 00:04:33

At the time?

69

: 00:04:37

Yeah, well, frustration

and poor use of time.

70

: 00:04:42

Which started to impact

my esteem and motivation.

71

: 00:04:45

The coaching qualification teaches you

coaching skills, but you don't get any

72

: 00:04:51

support on like running a business.

73

: 00:04:53

At me.

74

: 00:04:55

So maybe I felt like it would be good

to get some support there as well.

75

: 00:05:01

Yes, exactly.

76

: 00:05:02

And what did you find

helpful from the program?

77

: 00:05:04

Oh gosh, lots of things were

helpful from the program, really.

78

: 00:05:07

I mean, Your constant availability.

79

: 00:05:12

Maybe that's not something you can

but honestly the speed at which you

80

: 00:05:16

got back to me on an awful lot of

kind of small things important to

81

: 00:05:20

me was really, really helpful just

practically for moving forward on stuff.

82

: 00:05:27

So that support I really valued.

83

: 00:05:29

But in terms of the whole program what I

really valued was the community of people

84

: 00:05:36

and how much we supported each other.

85

: 00:05:40

And also the breadth of stuff we covered

in the course, stuff that I wouldn't

86

: 00:05:46

necessarily have Like paid for bit by bit,

you know, but it's all part of the mix.

87

: 00:05:51

I kind of felt like there was

a lot of added value from it.

88

: 00:05:55

Things like the copywriting things like

the breathing exercises listening to

89

: 00:06:00

somebody else do a presentation, even

that kind of thing, and actually, how much

90

: 00:06:06

you gain from even those conversations

as well, because you sort of think,

91

: 00:06:09

oh, maybe this is doable for me now.

92

: 00:06:10

Hmm.

93

: 00:06:12

And get ideas for how I

could tell a story like that.

94

: 00:06:15

So those sorts of things were amazing.

95

: 00:06:17

And then all of the videos online,

the fact you can do that in your own

96

: 00:06:21

time, and you've got a process, but

you can also fit it very much around

97

: 00:06:24

your life, was really, really good.

98

: 00:06:28

And then when you introduced that

half an hour slots, those were

99

: 00:06:32

really, really, very valuable.

100

: 00:06:34

Oh, Brill.

101

: 00:06:35

Thank you, Zoe.

102

: 00:06:36

It's great to reflect for me and hopefully

for you too, what was the result for

103

: 00:06:42

you from being part of the programme?

104

: 00:06:44

Well, a huge amount of progress

on actually creating a business

105

: 00:06:49

and a viable business proposition.

106

: 00:06:52

I wouldn't have had the success

that I've had with clients were

107

: 00:06:56

it not for the program, for sure.

108

: 00:06:59

I've learned from the program how to

build a credible offer, and I have

109

: 00:07:07

learned to iterate, I've learned to get

that to a point and then just run with

110

: 00:07:12

it and then keep iterating as I go.

111

: 00:07:14

I have learned what sales

strategies work for me.

112

: 00:07:20

Hmm.

113

: 00:07:22

I have learned an awful lot of tech

from your course, an awful lot of how

114

: 00:07:26

to make the most of LinkedIn, how to

make the most of different technical

115

: 00:07:32

sales tools, lead magnets, things like

that, that I'd never heard of Canva

116

: 00:07:37

I've migrated everything onto that now.

117

: 00:07:39

And I just don't think I would have

taken all of those steps as well.

118

: 00:07:43

And when you're running a small business

you know, to make all that more seamless

119

: 00:07:47

is so valuable as well as actually like

generating the sales at one end, but

120

: 00:07:52

actually creating processes that sit

behind that, that are also efficient.

121

: 00:07:56

It's helped me both grow the

business, but also run the business.

122

: 00:08:02

Yeah, totally.

123

: 00:08:03

And tell us about your

successes with clients.

124

: 00:08:06

I successfully sold my group program,

which I am absolutely thrilled about.

125

: 00:08:12

I did have a vague group program

when I joined in January that was

126

: 00:08:15

very loose and not to the point and

was didn't have any of this frontal

127

: 00:08:19

benefit stuff that we've talked about.

128

: 00:08:21

You know, it was very, this is what

you get from coaching and I've moved it

129

: 00:08:25

into really standing in the shoes of the

business and trying to understand what

130

: 00:08:29

is it that they want for their staff.

131

: 00:08:31

So I've translated what was quite inward

looking, I suppose, into something that

132

: 00:08:36

the world actually wants and needs.

133

: 00:08:39

And I have now.

134

: 00:08:41

seen that succeed in terms of sales.

135

: 00:08:44

So I have successfully sold

my group program, which I'm

136

: 00:08:48

really excited to have done.

137

: 00:08:50

I think I'm about to make another sale.

138

: 00:08:52

So you could wait until you, you

could wait until I have before you,

139

: 00:08:55

before you put the, put this out.

140

: 00:08:56

But I've translated the group program as

well into a program for an individual.

141

: 00:09:01

The group one is my flagship, but I've

translated it into one for an individual.

142

: 00:09:06

And I think he's about to, to buy that.

143

: 00:09:08

So I can kind of see now how I've

got a signature, but then I can

144

: 00:09:12

branch out other stuff off it.

145

: 00:09:15

And I don't think selling the one to one

program is my primary route because I want

146

: 00:09:22

to do the group ones and I think that I

will enjoy those more and there's bigger

147

: 00:09:26

benefits from that for the business.

148

: 00:09:29

But if some businesses are too

small for the group one, they don't

149

: 00:09:32

have enough people at that level.

150

: 00:09:33

I've got a version of it for the

individual, which is just so clear.

151

: 00:09:38

Now, because I've done all that work

through your program on how to really

152

: 00:09:43

build an offer that you can sell.

153

: 00:09:46

Amazing.

154

: 00:09:47

Yeah.

155

: 00:09:47

It's so exciting, isn't it?

156

: 00:09:48

And then you can make that into

a book or anything else that you

157

: 00:09:51

want to, like for an online course.

158

: 00:09:53

And yeah, super exciting.

159

: 00:09:56

I've got ideas coming out of my head.

160

: 00:09:57

Really.

161

: 00:09:58

I just can't, can't put them all

into practice at the moment, but

162

: 00:10:01

yeah, I'd love to kind of build an

app and build some stuff that people

163

: 00:10:05

can just access themselves almost

and just do their own learning.

164

: 00:10:09

But yeah, lots of ideas

for how I can do it.

165

: 00:10:11

What would you say is your

biggest takeaway from the program?

166

: 00:10:15

It's funny because it's sort of

stuff I already did know from

167

: 00:10:18

my previous career, but it's...

168

: 00:10:20

I don't know, it's somehow you get

lost in all the other stuff when

169

: 00:10:25

you're running a business, but I think

it's just to be super focused on the

170

: 00:10:29

consumer, on the person who is buying.

171

: 00:10:32

And that was the biggest thing.

172

: 00:10:34

One of the other big things, I maybe

should have mentioned that in what

173

: 00:10:36

was going on before for me, but one of

the big things I was spinning around

174

: 00:10:39

about wasn't just like what's the best

way to grow this and market it, but

175

: 00:10:45

it was also like, should I be a B2B

business or should I be a B2C business?

176

: 00:10:51

Yeah.

177

: 00:10:51

And it took a long time for me to feel

really comfortable with one or the other.

178

: 00:10:55

It took a long time to kind of let

go of one, but now I am focused

179

: 00:11:00

on being a corporate business

and I want to sell to the agency.

180

: 00:11:05

It's just made a huge difference to

what I spend my time doing and how I

181

: 00:11:12

prioritize my precious time I have each

week to spend on my business right now.

182

: 00:11:17

That is the single biggest thing

for me that was important because

183

: 00:11:20

once I had that, everything

could flow much more easily.

184

: 00:11:25

Think about the kind of

events I need to be at.

185

: 00:11:27

The events where the CEOs and the

agency owners are not necessarily the

186

: 00:11:31

events for the actual like employees.

187

: 00:11:33

So going to things like the

MRS conference, for example

188

: 00:11:37

was a big thing for me.

189

: 00:11:38

So I think I will take away to always

think about what that person wants and

190

: 00:11:43

needs and to keep myself constantly

connected with those people and be

191

: 00:11:48

doing market research with them,

always understanding Top of mind

192

: 00:11:53

priorities are and what's worrying them

and what's keeping them up at night.

193

: 00:11:57

And, you know, is it retention?

194

: 00:11:59

Is it productivity?

195

: 00:12:01

Is it performance?

196

: 00:12:03

I think that's the biggest thing.

197

: 00:12:04

Like once you know that you

can tell the story around that.

198

: 00:12:09

And it's not to say I'm

like changing what I do.

199

: 00:12:12

I still am focusing on those people

at the beginning of leadership

200

: 00:12:16

and management, but it's just

to stay relevant in terms of.

201

: 00:12:21

why they need me.

202

: 00:12:23

Yeah, so true.

203

: 00:12:25

And it's something that most

people think isn't important.

204

: 00:12:28

So I love that you've shared that

because everyone just wants to

205

: 00:12:32

jump to like selling the thing,

but there's so much value in

206

: 00:12:35

really keeping up with that client.

207

: 00:12:39

That's what I've learned, like, stand

in someone else's shoes, see the

208

: 00:12:43

world from their eyes ask questions,

don't perform and yeah, really.

209

: 00:12:50

Get as much information and get

as familiar as you can with what

210

: 00:12:53

they're doing and what's going

on right down to the specific

211

: 00:12:56

language that they're speaking.

212

: 00:12:58

And as I was saying, it feels

so odd to say this because I

213

: 00:13:01

did it in a previous career.

214

: 00:13:04

Like when we'd be giving advice to

brands to do that, giving them the

215

: 00:13:07

exact language and all, like everything

from quality down to language that,

216

: 00:13:12

you know, consumers would connect with

and then giving that to the brand.

217

: 00:13:16

But then it's good cause I've got

a lot of evidence in my head of

218

: 00:13:18

being a very successful strategy.

219

: 00:13:20

So I just needed to, to

apply it to my business.

220

: 00:13:24

And I think you do think when you start a

business that it's all about you and you

221

: 00:13:27

get bit, you do get bit self absorbed.

222

: 00:13:30

Exactly.

223

: 00:13:30

And we can't, we can't do it ourselves.

224

: 00:13:32

Like I have a business coach to

tell me, you know, what I need to do

225

: 00:13:35

differently because you just can't see

it when you're in it no matter how much

226

: 00:13:39

you know the staff, it's just really

hard to see your own blind spots.

227

: 00:13:45

Yeah, exactly.

228

: 00:13:46

And it's a lot of ego when you start

a business, you know, you sort of want

229

: 00:13:49

it to be successful and you think, I

think you have that belief that, or

230

: 00:13:54

I probably had that belief that it

was about me and what I was doing.

231

: 00:13:57

Yes.

232

: 00:13:58

Make me successful or not.

233

: 00:14:00

And so you're getting quite

focused on like what you're

234

: 00:14:02

producing and putting out there.

235

: 00:14:04

And I think you can shift to

focus on what do they need?

236

: 00:14:07

But it's such a difficult process to

go through on your own, because you

237

: 00:14:13

have to work out like who you're even

targeting and why and all that stuff.

238

: 00:14:17

And that's what the course does.

239

: 00:14:18

You say it kind of lets you

get there in your own time.

240

: 00:14:23

You've got your point of view

on that right from the outset

241

: 00:14:25

around niching and stuff.

242

: 00:14:26

And I think I even heard that in the

thing before I bought the program, like

243

: 00:14:29

about why you need a niche and everything.

244

: 00:14:33

But I think I thought I had a niche, but I

didn't realize until I joined the program

245

: 00:14:36

that it wasn't quite niched enough.

246

: 00:14:38

Yeah, yeah, totally.

247

: 00:14:39

It's all the stuff around that.

248

: 00:14:40

Exactly.

249

: 00:14:42

It's the so what and it's the with what

offer and all of those different bits,

250

: 00:14:46

you know, it's, even though I know that

theory from my, as I say, I know that

251

: 00:14:50

theory from before, but actually applying

it to yourself and being disciplined

252

: 00:14:53

about going through that process.

253

: 00:14:54

I just don't think that's something

you can really do on your own.

254

: 00:14:57

No, not in, not in like.

255

: 00:15:00

Three to four months anyway, or whatever

it took me to probably took me like three

256

: 00:15:03

months to sort of get that bit going.

257

: 00:15:05

And then like three months more, the

second half of your program, more

258

: 00:15:08

selling strategies and how to then

be getting the program out there

259

: 00:15:11

and what worked, I would say more

or less spent three months on each.

260

: 00:15:15

And so it's a huge amount of

progress in six months, really.

261

: 00:15:20

Yeah, amazing.

262

: 00:15:21

Yeah, it's been brilliant to see.

263

: 00:15:23

What's next for you Zoe?

264

: 00:15:24

Well, I'm going to design and

deliver an amazing group program.

265

: 00:15:29

It is in the making a future idea

that I do have is creating the same

266

: 00:15:34

program for a slightly senior level.

267

: 00:15:37

One about building high trust

teams specifically and becoming a

268

: 00:15:42

head of or a team leadership role.

269

: 00:15:44

Because I think the program I have

now is more for people who are at

270

: 00:15:47

the very beginning of like trying

to have client relationships and

271

: 00:15:51

trying to line manage people.

272

: 00:15:53

The next one will be more around

how do you scale up your leadership

273

: 00:15:57

and build teams and have impact

and influence at a bigger level.

274

: 00:16:02

Yeah.

275

: 00:16:03

Who would you recommend the program to?

276

: 00:16:05

Well, I already have recommended it to

somebody who yeah, like I'm connected

277

: 00:16:09

with, who seemed to be feeling similar

feelings to me around just spinning

278

: 00:16:15

around in their own head quite a lot and

getting a bit frustrated with progress.

279

: 00:16:21

I would recommend this program to people

who are really feeling entrepreneurial

280

: 00:16:26

and really want to build something.

281

: 00:16:31

And

282

: 00:16:34

people with a passion for, for making

a business out of what they do.

283

: 00:16:41

Totally.

284

: 00:16:42

And what should others

know about working with me?

285

: 00:16:46

That you're amazing.

286

: 00:16:48

I like this one.

287

: 00:16:50

You are a font of knowledge on everything.

288

: 00:16:52

I mean, I know you are there as a coach.

289

: 00:16:56

You do also have your own experience

to draw on as well, and do you

290

: 00:17:01

research things for us or things that

the group is interested in as well?

291

: 00:17:06

So you did quite a lot for me and

others like me on the corporate

292

: 00:17:11

side of things and looking at some

of the corporate sales strategies.

293

: 00:17:15

So I think that you have lots

of expertise yourself and then

294

: 00:17:17

you'll go away and look up things

as well, which is super valuable.

295

: 00:17:22

So there's the expertise and the fact

that you've been there and done it.

296

: 00:17:27

There's as I say the responsiveness.

297

: 00:17:30

But then there's just all of

the warmth isn't there as well.

298

: 00:17:32

There's just all of the

warmth and the encouragement.

299

: 00:17:35

And the really kind way in

which you challenge us, I think.

300

: 00:17:41

You, the way you build everyone

up and build up the belief.

301

: 00:17:48

But you keep the baton with us as well,

you know, to keep trying stuff and and

302

: 00:17:55

then work out what works for ourselves.

303

: 00:17:57

It's not, in that sense,

it is more coaching esque

304

: 00:18:00

because it's not prescriptive.

305

: 00:18:02

It's not, it's not like.

306

: 00:18:04

Five steps to getting

clients type of a thing.

307

: 00:18:07

There's the frameworks which you need

to work through for yourself to build

308

: 00:18:11

the kind of business that works for you.

309

: 00:18:13

You're like selling a way for us.

310

: 00:18:18

To solve our own challenges and whatever

those are, whether that your challenge

311

: 00:18:24

is more at the offer end of things, or

if it's more putting yourself out there.

312

: 00:18:30

I didn't particularly have that one

so much putting myself out there.

313

: 00:18:34

But I did have more of the, like,

getting clear on what I was doing and

314

: 00:18:37

about, but whatever your challenge is,

the frameworks are there for that, for

315

: 00:18:42

you to work out what works for you.

316

: 00:18:44

That seems differentiated

to me in the market.

317

: 00:18:47

And then the fact that it's a combination

of a group program plus some one to

318

: 00:18:51

one time with you as well is great.

319

: 00:18:54

And the fact that it's longitudinal,

it goes over six months.

320

: 00:18:57

I think you need that time.

321

: 00:19:00

And you need that like regular dose of Jo

every week to keep you moving on things.

322

: 00:19:08

So I think that the format of

the program is unique and the

323

: 00:19:11

way in which you deliver it.

324

: 00:19:13

Oh, thank you so much.

325

: 00:19:15

That's so amazing.

326

: 00:19:16

And I loved working with you.

327

: 00:19:18

I can't wait to see what's next for you.

328

: 00:19:21

Thank you so much, Zoe.

329

: 00:19:23

I hope you enjoyed listening

to Zoe's learnings.

330

: 00:19:25

She shared some really key, fundamental

things for you in this episode.

331

: 00:19:30

And if you would like my support to

make this happen, this is what I do.

332

: 00:19:35

Send me a message on

LinkedIn or Instagram.

333

: 00:19:38

It's Joanna, Lott Joanna with

an A, and Lott with two T's.

334

: 00:19:43

.

And let's chat about how I can help you to build or grow your business even further.

335

: 00:19:48

And like I say, at the end of every

episode, trust yourself, believe

336

: 00:19:51

in yourself and be the wise Gardner

who keeps on watering the seed.

337

: 00:19:56

Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone):

Thank you so much for listening to this

338

: 00:19:58

episode of Women in the Coaching Arena.

339

: 00:20:01

I have a mess of free resources on

my website joannalottcoaching.com.

340

: 00:20:08

That's Joanna with an A

and Lott with two T's.

341

: 00:20:11

joannalottcoaching.com.

342

: 00:20:14

And I'll also put links in the show notes.

343

: 00:20:17

Let me know if you found

this episode useful.

344

: 00:20:20

Share it with a friend and

leave me a review, and I will

345

: 00:20:23

personally thank you for that.

346

: 00:20:26

Remember to trust yourself, believe

in yourself and be the wise Gardner

347

: 00:20:30

who keeps on watering the seed.

348

: 00:20:33

Get into the arena dare, greatly and try.