126 | The inner game of high fee coaches and consultants - with Jessica Fernley

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Hi Jessica.

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I am so excited to welcome you

to Women in the Coaching Arena.

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You have a really unique perspective

to add, which is the inner game of

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high fee coaches and consultants.

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'cause I know your clients

are usually six figures, plus

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moving towards seven figures.

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So I'm really excited to explore

the mindset shifts and the inner

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game, that it takes to get to

that level and maintain it.

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Would you like to introduce yourself?

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Yeah.

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So firstly, thank you

for having me, Joanna.

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When we did our.

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Podcast interview on my show.

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We had so much fun, didn't we?

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It felt like we could have talked

all day, so I'm really pleased

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that we're doing this today.

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I'm Jessica Fernley.

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I am the business coach for women

consultants looking to move from

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six figures to seven figures.

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Doing it by working less and earning more.

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I'm doing it on your terms according to

ease and flow, not hustle, not grind,

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not stress, all of the things that

we equate with growing your business.

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It actually works.

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Better when you can build

according to what works for you.

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Instead of trying to change yourself

to be this archetypal, this is

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what a coach should be, this

is what a consultant should be.

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So it's really about connecting with

you, the person and building the

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business that will work for you.

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Yeah, totally.

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If we are thinking about the

consultants and coaches that you see

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get stuck at a plateau, what do you

think's really going on behind that?

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Yeah, so I think there's so many

things that come into play when we

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are setting out in business, when

we are looking at these big goals

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of six figures and seven figures.

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I was, just on earlier

with, my head of operations.

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We are having like an internal meeting

and, she, she made some reference to

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three K months, which was actually a typo.

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That wasn't what she meant to write.

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I was like, oh, I used to have a poster

on my wall that was like, when I make

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3000 pounds a month, it just felt like,

oh my gosh, I'm never gonna get there.

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I would say absolutely business growth

is all about getting to that place

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where you believe in full integrity with

yourself, your brain, your body, you're

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like, yeah, this makes sense to me.

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This is something that I can aspire

to because the thing that I see so

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often is women who are like, I wanna

make six figures, but I dunno, anyone

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who does that, I don't know if I can.

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And I think for women in the UK

particularly, there are so few women

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who actually need to pay VAT because

they haven't hit the threshold.

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I think it's 90,000 now, isn't it?

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It's very hard for me as a supplier when

I'm looking for suppliers to actually

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find a female supplier who charges VAT,

which is very good for me because I

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have to, but being able to use someone

who also has VAT registration because,

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you can claim back the stuff that you

pay them and all that I just think that

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there are so many women out there who

really want to get to six figures and

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really want to get to seven figures.

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I have women reach out

all the time who are like.

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I'm not as six figures yet, but I

know that I can be a seven figure

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coach, a seven figure consultant.

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There's something about that brand

which is why I built my brand around it.

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Just that concept of of course I

should be able to get to seven figures.

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Yet when we set out on the path of

trying to do it, there are so many

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voices in our brains and sometimes

people will say this to us don't

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you think that's a bit ambitious?

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Don't you think that's a bit too much?

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Yeah, totally.

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And I think what you said

about knowing others who are

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in this space is so important.

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For me, it is been so good to be part

of a mastermind where I hear other

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normal women like me earning good

money and creating amazing businesses.

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I think otherwise you just see

these shiny people online and you

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think, well, I'm not that shiny.

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I can't do this.

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And then you start to get in the

room with people and realize that

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they're just the same as you.

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Absolutely.

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And that's the strange thing is that

even when we are doing some of these

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numbers, you can look at it and be

like, it doesn't feel plausible.

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Like, how am I able to do this?

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And if you don't know people who are

also doing it, I'm sure it's like a woman

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thing that we have because we're so aware

of our community and what other people

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are doing relative to what we are doing.

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I really do feel that even when you

can see it in black and white, like.

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I do six figures.

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I do seven figures.

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It's really hard to accept like.

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I'm not having an imposter moment.

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I'm not pulling a fast one on the world.

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This is a genuine business

built with integrity.

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I am definitely doing those things

and it doesn't matter if you're making

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your first 10,000, your first a hundred

thousand, or even more than that.

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We need to be able to accept that we

are, that's something that makes sense.

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We need to be able to

receive it when it happens.

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I love that you mentioned three K as your

goal earlier because lots of my audience

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will be, nearer that end of thinking.

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That would be amazing.

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Tell me how you managed to

go from that being your goal

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. Well, I will share that.

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In my first year of business.

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Do you know what my annual goal was?

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It was 6,000 pounds for the entire year.

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And what I found was, in almost my

first month, I made 4,000 pounds and

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it freaked me out so much that I didn't

sell anything again for nine months.

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I remember really vividly because at the

time, my son who's now 11, was a baby.

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I left my corporate career when I

was 27, with really bad burnout.

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It was a whole host of things,

physical health problems, some mental

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health problems from the stress

of the physical health problems.

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My nine to five corporate job in London.

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Was something that I loved to do,

but it just, didn't work for me.

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So I'd gone from that career into,

being head of operations for a startup.

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Consultancy firm.

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And that's where a lot of my, business

growth, stuff that I'd learned through

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doing project management in London.

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Got road tested and we had a

lot of fun growing that company

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from six to seven figures.

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But then I got pregnant and while I

was on maternity leave, I was so bored,

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I was off for a year and I was just

like, I just don't know what to do.

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I feel like I haven't spoken to.

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To an adult in such a long time.

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I haven't used my brain.

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This baby just cries.

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But so I, I got this idea of

like, I love helping grow stuff

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from there, a friend actually said to

me you should become a business coach.

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And I was like, what

are you talking about?

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That's not a thing.

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And she was like, it literally is.

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So I was googling what is a business

coach and was like, oh my gosh,

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this would be perfect for me.

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But you can't just Google a

job title and then become it.

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But that's kind of what I did.

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So I started out with this

lofty goal of 6,000 pounds.

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'cause that was the gap that

we had in our family finances.

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And I was like, okay, I

think I can probably do that.

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Completely freaked myself out by, I had a

thing that cost: 2000

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in the first month and then cried talking

to my husband in the kitchen, being

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like, that used to be my annual bonus.

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I don't know what this means.

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Like I'm only doing two

hours work with them a month.

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And it was just that real thing of

now I look back and I'm like, what

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was the problem in that situation?

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I didn't know how to receive 4,000 pounds

in one go, and I didn't know how to

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receive money for my coaching services

because not very long before that, I

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hadn't even known what a coach was.

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So we need to get to a place where

we can believe, yes, this is me.

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This is plausible.

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This is what I can earn.

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But in answer to your question, Joanna,

about how did I get to sort of where

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I am now from that very kind of slow

start and particularly, 'cause I

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remember, in the house that we lived

in at the time, we had a sort of

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attic conversion, on the top floor.

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And I had this big like.

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Two poster, where, I used to

do all my business planning now

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I've got a whiteboard, on my

wall where I do all of that.

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I used to look at that so often and

be like,: 3000

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It just feels impossible.

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So I think it's always a process

of thinking your way into it.

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I do this with clients when we're modeling

how to get to seven figures, but it works

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just as well for six figures or any goal.

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And it's like, okay, so what do I have?

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What am I charging for it?

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And how many times do I need to

sell it in order to hit that goal?

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There was a realization that the

women I really want to work with

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don't take me very seriously because

I'm not charging them enough.

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Does that mean I've

gotta put my prices up?

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But that was very much the

lesson I needed to learn.

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Like people, you teach

people how to treat you.

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And if you're like, oh yeah, I can help

you make six figures, but you only charge

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people 500 pounds, it might interest

you to know that my very first client.

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I charged her 30 pounds

for two hours with me.

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I started at the negative

extreme in terms of mindset.

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It's a question of just keep taking

the next step when something comes up

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that we need to process and release.

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Like a limiting belief, a traumatic

money story from earlier in

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your life, whatever it might be.

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You just need to keep taking the next step

and really that's the way that kind of

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a hundred pounds, as your fee becomes a

thousand, becomes 10,000 becomes 50,000.

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It's about being open to the next thing.

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And ultimately you get to a

point where you realize there's

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actually no limit on anything.

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All these ceilings that we create

for ourselves, they are self-imposed

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and they usually don't exist.

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That's a real kind of brain explosion,

when you start to really lean into that.

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I was just about to ask, what did you used

to believe that you no longer believe?

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And that's probably a great one,

but anything else that's comes

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to mind with that question?

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Oh my gosh.

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I mean, everything no one

will pay more than 30.

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That's not true.

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I can tell you that categorically, I

used to believe that it had to be hard.

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A lot of my clients still hold onto this.

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And that's the thing with some of

these limiting beliefs, have you

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heard people say new level, new devil?

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I actually find that sometimes

new level, same devil as before,

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only now more zeros on the end.

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We still have that glass ceiling in

place that we're like, oh yeah, you

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can charge 10,000, but you couldn't

charge 20, you couldn't charge 50.

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So we keep playing the

same games very often.

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We need to do the same work at

every level of business to be

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like, okay, this is gonna be fine.

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We can see this and the way

that it's gonna work out.

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But I think I had a lot of.

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Confidence issues that were quite personal

and specific to me, and I think for a

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lot of my clients, because they've been

in corporate sometimes for two decades.

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They've got that experience behind them.

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They're quite confident in the workplace,

actually in a way that I wasn't,

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because I had left under such traumatic

circumstances at such a young age, at

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such an early part of my career, I was

27 when I stopped working in corporate.

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For me, there was an extra layer of

like, people won't take you seriously.

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People won't, be

interested in what you say.

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And even like, you know, the

mean stuff that we all have,

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like your voice sounds stupid.

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It's so funny because now I meet people

and they're like, I love your podcast

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because I love listening to your voice.

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You've got the most beautiful voice.

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And I'm like, really?

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I've always hated that about myself.

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So I think, I'll say

this to illustrate it.

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I met a coach several years ago

who, does a lot of work with almost

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hypnotherapy replacing, wrong

beliefs the upleveled version of you.

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At first I was very resistant and I was

like, I don't wanna become someone who

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believes delusional stuff about myself.

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Like, you know, I am magical at everything

and everything I do is a massive success.

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But when I started doing some work with

her, what I realized was the negative

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stuff that I've been believing about

myself before, your voice is stupid.

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No one thinks you're good at this.

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Was much more delusional

than the positive things.

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Over time I was like, oh my gosh.

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The stuff that I'm trying to

step into, people are already

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saying these things to me.

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I'm the only one who doesn't see this,

I've seen that so much with clients

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we are our harshest critics, and often

have such a distorted view of ourselves

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compared to how our colleagues, our

peers, our clients, they view us

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in a completely different light,

but we are often the last to know.

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Yeah, totally.

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That identity gap is huge, especially

as your business grows, if I'm

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reflecting on how my business

has grown, my clients think.

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I'm like, a really super

successful business woman.

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And then obviously half the

time I'm just like, I'm just

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muddling through like you guys.

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But like you say, there's that

identity gap that we often have

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and we get stuck at that certain

point of our journey, even though

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we've grown hugely since that point.

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Yeah.

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So tell me what you did to overcome

those gaps and move your identity

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forward to where you are now.

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Yeah, so.

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To be honest, there's kind

of two answers to this.

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The first thing is, I played small

for quite a long time actually.

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I was probably in business for about six

years before my business really took off,

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and I kind of got to six figures plus.

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There was really slow growth.

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To be fair.

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I had a baby, another

baby during that time,

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I wouldn't say it slowed me down, but

it was quite a big thing to build in.

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We also moved, up to Sheffield where

we knew no one around the same time.

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My dad died really suddenly of cancer.

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So there was stuff going on in those

years that meant I wasn't always

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let's blow the roof off this business.

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Sometimes I was just clinging on for

dear life, being like, let's survive.

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That's a good idea.

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I would say that's the thing that I

wouldn't recommend to do, is to always

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play to the safest, lowest number

that you can, because I actually

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found that I held my own growth back

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Setting the bar high enough and

sometimes not attracting in people

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who I really wanted to work with

and actively discouraging people who

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would've been amazing to work with.

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'cause they were like, do you have game?

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Because you don't seem

to believe in yourself.

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And you know, it's a lot, isn't it?

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To ask our clients to believe in us

more than we believe in ourselves.

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We have to have that the right way around.

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But I think the other thing is to allow

your ambition for your business to

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exist and grow as you grow, i've never

really got to a point in business where

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I'm like, I've done everything now.

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Sometimes I observe these big name

coaches and some go into retirement and

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seem like, ha, I'm financially free.

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And some of them I really think are

still like playing out some version

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of kind of money scarcity and acting

like they're desperate for the money.

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And it's like, oh, are you telling the

truth about how much money you make?

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Do you need another 10 million

after the 20 you've already made?

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I think that's super

interesting to observe.

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But I think it's knowing that, we usually

are holding space for an immediate goal.

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So it might be the six figure goal.

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But once we get to that point, and

that's a key part of the story.

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'cause very often we will

be like, it'll never happen.

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Like, you know, we, we hold space for it.

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But then deep down we're kind of

expecting it not to happen but this

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is often when I meet women and they're

like, oh yeah, so I grew this business

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and now the annual turnover is 300,000.

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And sometimes there is a bit of a,

like, I don't know if that's allowed.

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I think it's knowing that once you

get to that initial goal something

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else will come in and it's like,

are we open to the bigger version.

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So if you hit a hundred

thousand, what's the next thing?

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Is it 300?

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Is it 500?

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Is it a million?

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We go through that exact same process

again of I don't know if I'm allowed that.

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And, having to do the work on all of that.

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If you are working with coaches and

consultants who are putting in a

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proposal to an organization, perhaps

it's a really high fee in one hit,

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how do you recommend that they do that

and go through that process of putting

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that scary number on that proposal?

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Yeah, so there's two ways

we can go about this.

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The first one is to just be like.

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There it is.

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It's a big number.

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Let's just do it.

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And I think for my clients who.

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: 00:15:33

Know that what they've been

charging is out of alignment

309

: 00:15:35

with who they actually are.

310

: 00:15:36

Because I know I've been through that

journey, it's very easy for me to spot it,

311

: 00:15:40

for women who are also in that situation.

312

: 00:15:42

Sometimes it's the right thing

to just be like, look, you

313

: 00:15:45

gotta stick a zero on this.

314

: 00:15:47

In fact.

315

: 00:15:48

You might need to stick to.

316

: 00:15:49

So like, let's just, we

are going big from now on.

317

: 00:15:52

So one of the things I say to my clients

is that from now on, your minimum contract

318

: 00:15:56

size is a hundred thousand dollars.

319

: 00:15:58

I work with women all over the world.

320

: 00:15:59

I do most of my work with women in the us.

321

: 00:16:02

And for corporate consulting, that

is something which everyone is sort

322

: 00:16:07

of like really, but it's also not

outside of the realms of possibility.

323

: 00:16:12

so I, I always think kind of aligning what

you're doing to some of these big numbers.

324

: 00:16:17

If you're an executive coach,

why can't you charge 50,000?

325

: 00:16:21

And again, it's like, do you

think you're good at what you do?

326

: 00:16:24

Because people pay all kinds of

stuff for all kinds of things.

327

: 00:16:28

It's not like Tesco where it's

like, this is this, and if we

328

: 00:16:31

scan you at the checkout, this

number will show up on the screen.

329

: 00:16:34

It's a lot more fluid than that.

330

: 00:16:36

The other thing that you can do if you

are looking at the big number and you

331

: 00:16:39

know, it's not always the best thing to

just be like, I'm gonna jump into this.

332

: 00:16:43

'cause it feels really scary.

333

: 00:16:44

Like sometimes that pays off and

sometimes it's not the right move.

334

: 00:16:47

And this is where personal, connection to

your goals and intuition really comes in

335

: 00:16:53

if you're charging 10,000 at the moment.

336

: 00:16:56

Why not make it 12 next time?

337

: 00:16:58

Why not make it 15 next time?

338

: 00:17:00

What my clients consistently

find is, we almost play this game

339

: 00:17:03

where we're like, what does the

client do when you say the price?

340

: 00:17:07

And if you say the price, and

they go, yeah, that's fine.

341

: 00:17:09

It's like, oh, should have been higher.

342

: 00:17:12

And the other version of that

game is like, what do the men

343

: 00:17:15

charge, for the guys who are doing

this because it's really common.

344

: 00:17:19

A client of mine was saying the

other day, she met someone, who

345

: 00:17:21

was like her, but with more zeros.

346

: 00:17:23

And I was like, isn't that always the way?

347

: 00:17:25

The men are always charging

more than the women.

348

: 00:17:27

So it's making sure that we are

truly competitive within the market

349

: 00:17:32

for the skillset that you have.

350

: 00:17:34

Where do you even begin with

consulting or coaching pricing?

351

: 00:17:38

My clients constantly send me their thing

going, what number shall I put on it?

352

: 00:17:43

And it's so varied, isn't it?

353

: 00:17:46

So anything you've got on

pricing in practical terms?

354

: 00:17:50

I think it should always be.

355

: 00:17:52

High enough but, I think we like to

feel like there's a price list and I, a

356

: 00:17:58

conversation that I have often, especially

with women that I'm not working with,

357

: 00:18:02

where they, they'll almost be like, in my

industry, no one charges more than this.

358

: 00:18:07

My answer to that is are

you in the right industry?

359

: 00:18:09

Are you sure you wanna be

in this industry because.

360

: 00:18:12

Why do it?

361

: 00:18:12

If you can only do low paid work,

that doesn't feel very fun for anyone.

362

: 00:18:16

And there's usually a lot more

transferability between industries,

363

: 00:18:19

especially if you've come up

in the not-for-profit sector.

364

: 00:18:24

I think it's starting

to get an understanding.

365

: 00:18:27

You can charge anything for anything.

366

: 00:18:28

The real question is how dialed in

are you to what your client needs?

367

: 00:18:32

How much do you understand

that organization?

368

: 00:18:34

How much do you understand the

budget they have available?

369

: 00:18:37

And, how much of that budget they're

willing to part with to deal,

370

: 00:18:41

with their corporate problems.

371

: 00:18:42

You know, these core things that

they're under pressure to deliver.

372

: 00:18:45

When something becomes an organizational

objective, it's amazing how much budget

373

: 00:18:50

can be found for the right solutions.

374

: 00:18:52

And I think we talked

about that, didn't we?

375

: 00:18:54

When you came on my show, Joanna, just

understanding where the client is and

376

: 00:18:57

knowing not just what you want to sell,

but what they are looking to invest in.

377

: 00:19:02

Yeah, totally.

378

: 00:19:03

And I love that you identified

that even that is a decision.

379

: 00:19:06

So it's just a story, in other words.

380

: 00:19:08

Why are you choosing this industry then?

381

: 00:19:10

If you can't make any money in it?

382

: 00:19:11

Like we do create our own future.

383

: 00:19:14

Yeah.

384

: 00:19:14

We can make decisions on what

industries to go after, so I love that.

385

: 00:19:20

Rather than.

386

: 00:19:21

Believing the story of, okay, no

one will pay that in your industry.

387

: 00:19:26

You might as well just give up.

388

: 00:19:27

No, no.

389

: 00:19:28

Yeah.

390

: 00:19:28

How else can you take charge.

391

: 00:19:29

It's understandable for women to feel like

that because you know, that is how a lot

392

: 00:19:34

of us have been treated in our careers.

393

: 00:19:35

Women often end up in lower

paying careers than men.

394

: 00:19:38

That is actually just an economic fact.

395

: 00:19:40

We are often drawn to lower paid work.

396

: 00:19:43

We can almost internalize that and

be like, you can almost have what you

397

: 00:19:46

want, but you won't get paid for it.

398

: 00:19:48

And so a really big story that we

have to overcome, and this, I think

399

: 00:19:51

this is why I was crying in my

kitchen like 10 years ago, but like,

400

: 00:19:55

oh look, you can have what you want

and you can get paid what you want.

401

: 00:19:59

I think that's one of the

hardest things to grasp.

402

: 00:20:02

What if, you know, we always

say, what if I can't do it?

403

: 00:20:04

What if you can do it?

404

: 00:20:05

What if there's actually nothing

stopping you from doing it?

405

: 00:20:07

I find that way more overwhelming

than coping with disappointment,

406

: 00:20:11

which I've been very used to.

407

: 00:20:12

And I think that's a really common

theme, in the client work that I do,

408

: 00:20:16

and I'm sure you've seen the same thing.

409

: 00:20:18

Oh yeah, totally.

410

: 00:20:20

Because I think then leading us

perfectly into, okay, so we get

411

: 00:20:24

the gig, we've got this big money

for our coaching consulting.

412

: 00:20:28

Then what can come up is the

over-delivering and lack of boundaries.

413

: 00:20:33

So tell me more about what you see when

someone does get that big contract.

414

: 00:20:37

Suddenly it's like, yay,

they paid me all this money.

415

: 00:20:40

What can happen next?

416

: 00:20:42

I mean, this is a very special

kind of meltdown, isn't it?

417

: 00:20:45

Where it's like the pressure,

I need to be worth the money.

418

: 00:20:48

But the thing that I always

say, to clients is the more

419

: 00:20:51

they pay, the less they get.

420

: 00:20:53

And I love saying that

because people are like, what?

421

: 00:20:55

And then you think about it,

you're like, no, that actually

422

: 00:20:57

makes perfect sense because.

423

: 00:20:59

They're not paying for like 10,000 things.

424

: 00:21:02

You know when you try and stuff

a proposal with extra bits 'cause

425

: 00:21:05

you're like, I feel really bad 'cause

I'm charging 10,000 pounds, so I've

426

: 00:21:08

gotta make it worth their while.

427

: 00:21:09

It's like, no, that's the wrong

mindset because most people, especially

428

: 00:21:14

these corporate organizations, do not

have time to sit through a course.

429

: 00:21:18

They don't have time for extra trainings.

430

: 00:21:20

If they've asked for those things

and it sweetens the deal, then great.

431

: 00:21:24

But there is such a difference

between that vibe and just adding

432

: 00:21:27

extra things so we feel less guilty.

433

: 00:21:30

We have to get to a place where

we're like, they're paying me for

434

: 00:21:32

my brain, my amazing experience,

my amazing skills in this area.

435

: 00:21:37

That is where the value is

not in all these extra things

436

: 00:21:40

that we can make up and add.

437

: 00:21:42

Oh, I absolutely love that phrase.

438

: 00:21:44

Tell me it again.

439

: 00:21:45

What the, the more they

pay, the less they get.

440

: 00:21:49

That's the one I need to write that down.

441

: 00:21:51

The more they pay, the less they get.

442

: 00:21:53

Well, the other one that goes

with that is if they pay less,

443

: 00:21:55

this is for like negotiations.

444

: 00:21:57

If they pay less, they get less.

445

: 00:21:59

So, you know, when you do a

proposal and they're like, oh, we

446

: 00:22:02

only have budget for 60% of that.

447

: 00:22:04

Can we have a hundred

percent of that and pay 60%?

448

: 00:22:07

No.

449

: 00:22:07

If you pay 60%, get 60%.

450

: 00:22:10

It's a very helpful little

rule to have in your brain.

451

: 00:22:13

Oh, it's so, so good.

452

: 00:22:14

'cause like you say, otherwise

people just get the whole thing,

453

: 00:22:17

even though they want it for cheaper.

454

: 00:22:18

So I love that other quote as well.

455

: 00:22:21

So then we can think we need to do

more to gain all of this business

456

: 00:22:26

and we need to work harder because

we're earning all of this money now.

457

: 00:22:29

So how do you talk about

simplifying to grow?

458

: 00:22:33

I'm sure I've heard you talk about this

on your podcast, how to actually make

459

: 00:22:38

life easy and still grow your business.

460

: 00:22:41

Yeah, so a big thing that I talk about

a lot is working less and earning

461

: 00:22:45

more, and you have to be careful.

462

: 00:22:46

You say it the right way round, otherwise

it's not aspirational at all, but

463

: 00:22:50

working less, earning more, I found that

this is something that almost everyone

464

: 00:22:54

in the world wants to be able to do.

465

: 00:22:56

But to really pull back from this

perspective where it feels like,

466

: 00:23:00

if they're paying more, that

means I have to give them more.

467

: 00:23:02

If I want to make more in my business,

that means I have to work harder.

468

: 00:23:05

Actually sometimes our conscientiousness

and our hardworking nature is the thing

469

: 00:23:11

that holds us back from making more

money because we're still trying to

470

: 00:23:15

play small with the wrong audience.

471

: 00:23:17

Because this is the thing, you

know when people are like, oh, I

472

: 00:23:20

spoke to a really great company.

473

: 00:23:21

They're my ideal client.

474

: 00:23:23

They just don't have any budget.

475

: 00:23:24

And it's like, if they don't have

budget, they are not your ideal client,

476

: 00:23:28

because that's not a winning situation.

477

: 00:23:30

If you get that gig,

you're not gonna enjoy it.

478

: 00:23:32

So it's really about aiming for

the top of the market instead of

479

: 00:23:35

like the inoffensive bottom of

the market where we're like, it's.

480

: 00:23:38

It's great.

481

: 00:23:39

They're willing to take a chance on me

and I'm giving them a really good price

482

: 00:23:42

because they've taken a chance on me.

483

: 00:23:43

It's like, ugh, they're

getting an amazing deal.

484

: 00:23:45

Don't put yourself out like that.

485

: 00:23:47

That is not the way to be treated

well as a coach or consultant, but

486

: 00:23:51

I think the really important thing.

487

: 00:23:53

Is that we understand like what

is, what is the actual market

488

: 00:23:56

value of what I'm able to offer?

489

: 00:23:58

If you've come out of a corporate career,

if you've been in senior leadership

490

: 00:24:02

you have skills that are very valuable.

491

: 00:24:05

what I love, seeing in my clients is very

often they really understand what it's

492

: 00:24:09

like from the other side of the table

because they've commissioned work, like

493

: 00:24:12

the services they're looking to offer.

494

: 00:24:15

That is the best mindset to be in of like.

495

: 00:24:17

Not just like me and the things

that I wanna do, and I wanna make

496

: 00:24:20

people feel really good, which, you

know, we all do and that's lovely.

497

: 00:24:24

But what is the corporate

organization actually looking to

498

: 00:24:26

achieve When we can really align

the things that we are delivering?

499

: 00:24:30

That's when we can create work that will

be hundred thousand pounds or dollars,

500

: 00:24:37

even more it can run to sort of 400,

500 depending on the organization,

501

: 00:24:41

depending on what you are doing.

502

: 00:24:43

So, you know, things like

leadership development.

503

: 00:24:46

You can do that as a coach,

management consulting.

504

: 00:24:49

This is why the big four firms do it.

505

: 00:24:51

It's very lucrative.

506

: 00:24:52

So whatever field you are in, you've

gotta start thinking about it.

507

: 00:24:56

It's like, what is the, version of

what this is, instead of trying to

508

: 00:25:00

do the thing that will not get you

criticized or not, show that you

509

: 00:25:03

can do these things and you're not

very confident at the other things.

510

: 00:25:07

What actually takes account of who

you truly are and the expertise that

511

: 00:25:10

you have, and how can you start to

put that across in a way that makes

512

: 00:25:14

it an absolute no brainer because

it doesn't need to be hard to get

513

: 00:25:18

some of these really big, contracts.

514

: 00:25:21

My clients are amazing,

but they're also human.

515

: 00:25:23

They're not superheroes.

516

: 00:25:24

They are skilled professionals

as your audience are as well,

517

: 00:25:28

I would imagine, Joanna.

518

: 00:25:29

It doesn't need to be this

really complicated thing that's

519

: 00:25:33

only for very special people.

520

: 00:25:35

You are way more special,

than you often realize.

521

: 00:25:38

Oh, I love that.

522

: 00:25:39

And if you are thinking about

maybe one of your most successful

523

: 00:25:42

clients, describe them to me.

524

: 00:25:45

What sort of traits they have

and the journey that they've

525

: 00:25:49

maybe been on to get there.

526

: 00:25:51

Yeah.

527

: 00:25:51

Well I think something that I've

seen with quite a few clients

528

: 00:25:54

is coming into consulting.

529

: 00:25:57

Like a lot of my clients, they do both.

530

: 00:25:58

I think coaching is one of those skills,

at this level of an organization, you're

531

: 00:26:02

probably gonna be doing an element

of coaching 'cause you've gotta get

532

: 00:26:04

the leadership on side, gotta deal

with a few different personalities.

533

: 00:26:08

There's often stuff that needs

to happen within teams to get

534

: 00:26:10

people to play well together.

535

: 00:26:12

A thing that I see quite often

is that, people follow demand.

536

: 00:26:15

So it's like, will you do this?

537

: 00:26:18

And then another organization is

like, can you do this other thing?

538

: 00:26:20

Which is completely different and it's

all within your kind of general specialty,

539

: 00:26:24

but nothing is niched down or specific.

540

: 00:26:27

When I meet women in that situation,

typically they're a bit fed up.

541

: 00:26:31

They're working incredibly long hours,

they're fairly burned out, and they've

542

: 00:26:35

created a perfect replica of the

corporate job that they didn't like very

543

: 00:26:39

much and they wanted to get away from.

544

: 00:26:41

It could be that this feels quite

obvious, but the thing that you need

545

: 00:26:44

to do in that situation is to get

really intentional about the kind of

546

: 00:26:47

work that you actually want to do.

547

: 00:26:49

Because it's subtle, but like if you are

a yes person to your corporate masters,

548

: 00:26:54

they'll say, can you jump over here?

549

: 00:26:55

Yes.

550

: 00:26:56

How high can you jump

in this other direction?

551

: 00:26:58

Of course I can.

552

: 00:27:00

And what you end up doing is dealing

with this generality where you are always

553

: 00:27:03

slightly beyond what you can actually

cope with and what you know how to do.

554

: 00:27:07

And there's no space in that for your

own preference, for your own kind of,

555

: 00:27:12

lots of my clients, they'll say i've

done this broad stuff, but the thing I

556

: 00:27:16

really love is this narrow piece here.

557

: 00:27:19

When you start to actually get

intentional, it's scarier because you

558

: 00:27:22

are asking for something different to

what sometimes people are wanting you

559

: 00:27:26

to do, when you can be really specific

and say, I wanna be the specialist.

560

: 00:27:30

You know, we call it zone of genius.

561

: 00:27:31

I dunno if you've come across,

the book by Gay Hendricks.

562

: 00:27:34

Yeah.

563

: 00:27:35

Big Leap.

564

: 00:27:35

I love that book, and it's so applicable

to this kind of, niching decision

565

: 00:27:39

making, but when you really know what

your zone of genius is, the thing

566

: 00:27:43

that you provide to an extremely high

standard, because that's your gifting,

567

: 00:27:47

that's your experience, that's your

career, that's what it's been about.

568

: 00:27:50

There is such a premium value

on that, but I definitely think.

569

: 00:27:54

It can be so hard to stop

being the yes person.

570

: 00:27:57

Because as women, and my clients are

often very different personalities,

571

: 00:28:01

but almost everyone finds it hard to

be like, I'm not gonna do that anymore.

572

: 00:28:06

I only want to do this.

573

: 00:28:08

There's always some friction of

I don't know if I'm allowed to

574

: 00:28:10

be specific about what I want.

575

: 00:28:12

Yes, totally.

576

: 00:28:14

And I can see your book in the

background called too much.

577

: 00:28:17

Tell us more about what that

book and that title means.

578

: 00:28:20

Yeah, so, I wrote the book over two years.

579

: 00:28:24

It came out earlier this year.

580

: 00:28:26

And what I was finding is that

in conversations with other

581

: 00:28:31

entrepreneurs, there was some level

of like, oh yeah, I am way too much.

582

: 00:28:35

Oh, me too.

583

: 00:28:36

I am so too much.

584

: 00:28:37

And, I think sometimes it's something

more known and sort of colloquial in

585

: 00:28:41

America than in the uk but once people

understand it, they really relate to it

586

: 00:28:44

it's this idea of like, you've always

been told, like you're doing a bit too

587

: 00:28:48

fast, you're thinking a bit too fast.

588

: 00:28:50

Your ideas are a bit too out there.

589

: 00:28:52

You're really thinking outside the box.

590

: 00:28:54

We are not looking for a big solution,

we're just looking to sweep it under the

591

: 00:28:57

carpet and make it go away for another

six years or whatever it might be.

592

: 00:29:00

Women like this, we are the ones who

end up as coaches and consultants 'cause

593

: 00:29:04

corporate cannot contain us and the

bigness of our ideas, the brightness of

594

: 00:29:09

what we are looking to do in the world.

595

: 00:29:10

And I think there's a lot of layers

on there for women as well of like.

596

: 00:29:14

It's not generally good

to be an ambitious woman.

597

: 00:29:16

I dunno if you've

experienced that, Joanna.

598

: 00:29:18

I definitely have try calling your

business seven figure consultant.

599

: 00:29:21

Some people are just like, Nope, I

don't wanna talk about that at all.

600

: 00:29:25

So I've written the book to.

601

: 00:29:27

Reframe this thing of too much.

602

: 00:29:29

This doesn't need to be something that

means there's something wrong with you.

603

: 00:29:33

This is actually all about how we

can take you and put you in the

604

: 00:29:37

right rooms instead of the rooms

where like people are thinking

605

: 00:29:39

small and you are too much for that.

606

: 00:29:41

What are the rooms where you're

too much is just the right amount.

607

: 00:29:44

It goes into kind of as women,

why I think we should all be

608

: 00:29:48

aspiring to create wealth.

609

: 00:29:50

And in the world, in our

families, changing the world in

610

: 00:29:53

that way, it goes into trauma.

611

: 00:29:55

And what you can do if you have

trauma in your backstory that feels

612

: 00:29:58

like it intrudes into your business.

613

: 00:30:00

It also talks about how do we handle

these big ambitions that we have.

614

: 00:30:04

You know, if you wanna make a hundred

thousand pounds and it feels like

615

: 00:30:06

every time you say that out loud,

people are like, oh, you'll be lucky.

616

: 00:30:10

I can't tell you the number

of people who've said that to

617

: 00:30:13

me in similar conversations.

618

: 00:30:15

So the book is for you if you are.

619

: 00:30:17

Looking at your business and you're

like, yeah, I wanna do really well

620

: 00:30:21

at this business, but why is everyone

telling me that I can't all the time?

621

: 00:30:24

And if you are talking to the

person who wants to gain corporate

622

: 00:30:28

work, where should they begin?

623

: 00:30:31

Yeah, so, I actually have a new

free resource that just came out

624

: 00:30:35

a few weeks ago called How to Get

Your First B2B Consulting clients.

625

: 00:30:39

It's also very applicable

to anyone who does executive

626

: 00:30:41

coaching in corporate companies.

627

: 00:30:43

So it breaks down.

628

: 00:30:46

Some of the things that you might not

have thought about and if you are starting

629

: 00:30:49

to really look at client acquisition,

yes, I wanna do this kind of consulting,

630

: 00:30:53

I wanna do this kind of coaching.

631

: 00:30:55

It's an excellent place to start.

632

: 00:30:57

It comes with a free private

audio as well where I break

633

: 00:31:00

things down in even more detail.

634

: 00:31:02

Oh, sounds amazing.

635

: 00:31:04

And I will link to that in the show notes.

636

: 00:31:06

So if someone is listening today,

they know they're playing small and

637

: 00:31:10

they want to play a bigger game,

what's your advice for them that they

638

: 00:31:14

can actually implement this week?

639

: 00:31:17

Yeah, I would say, in my book I have

a three stage framework connecting

640

: 00:31:22

to abundance, dealing with the inner

critic and feeling for aligned actions.

641

: 00:31:27

But this first thing of connecting

to abundance, it's almost like.

642

: 00:31:31

That voice that is

always like, I want more.

643

: 00:31:33

This should be bigger.

644

: 00:31:34

I want a seven figure business.

645

: 00:31:36

What would happen if

you just let it speak?

646

: 00:31:38

I would literally sit

down with your journal.

647

: 00:31:40

I would free write.

648

: 00:31:42

My life is a seven figure coach.

649

: 00:31:44

My life is a seven figure consultant.

650

: 00:31:45

Whatever it is.

651

: 00:31:47

We have so many impulses.

652

: 00:31:49

We have so many nudges from the

universe and we ignore all of them.

653

: 00:31:52

'cause we're like, that's too big.

654

: 00:31:54

I'm not allowed to do that.

655

: 00:31:56

That freaks me out.

656

: 00:31:57

Let that voice start to speak

even if only to yourself.

657

: 00:32:00

I have had clients who have done

this and it has transformed the way

658

: 00:32:04

that they show up in their business.

659

: 00:32:05

So I would absolutely say, even

if you're thinking like, oh,

660

: 00:32:08

but that's seven figures and I

just wanna get to six figures.

661

: 00:32:11

That's fine.

662

: 00:32:12

Get to six figures and the

rest of your path will uncover.

663

: 00:32:15

But the way to do it is to start to give

yourself permission to own that ambition.

664

: 00:32:21

I love it.

665

: 00:32:21

I cannot wait to actually

start doing that myself.

666

: 00:32:24

I used to journal all the time, and

now I've fallen out of the habit.

667

: 00:32:27

So it's a great way of untangling your

thoughts and it's worked massively for

668

: 00:32:32

me to grow my business to this level.

669

: 00:32:34

So I cannot wait to write that next goal.

670

: 00:32:37

Jessica.

671

: 00:32:38

Thank you so much for being on the show.

672

: 00:32:41

I can't wait to share your

resources and also your book

673

: 00:32:44

any final words for listeners?

674

: 00:32:47

Yeah, I mean, thank you

so much for having me.

675

: 00:32:49

It's been such a pleasure

to talk about these things,

676

: 00:32:51

pay attention to what your inner

voice, your higher self is sending you.

677

: 00:32:56

I often talk with my clients about

seven figure self, but you can just as

678

: 00:32:59

easily make that your six figure self.

679

: 00:33:01

But just like pay attention when

these little nudges are coming up.

680

: 00:33:04

I could do that.

681

: 00:33:05

I could do a workshop like that.

682

: 00:33:06

I could charge that again.

683

: 00:33:08

What would happen if you listen to that

voice instead of squashing it down?

684

: 00:33:12

Yeah.

685

: 00:33:12

Love it.

686

: 00:33:13

Thank you so much.

687

: 00:33:15

Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone):

Thank you so much for listening to this

688

: 00:33:17

episode of Women in the Coaching Arena.

689

: 00:33:19

I have a mess of free resources on

my website joannalottcoaching.com.

690

: 00:33:26

That's Joanna with an A

and Lott with two T's.

691

: 00:33:30

joannalottcoaching.com.

692

: 00:33:32

And I'll also put links in the show notes.

693

: 00:33:36

Let me know if you found

this episode useful.

694

: 00:33:38

Share it with a friend and

leave me a review, and I will

695

: 00:33:41

personally thank you for that.

696

: 00:33:44

Remember to trust yourself, believe

in yourself and be the wise Gardner

697

: 00:33:49

who keeps on watering the seed.

698

: 00:33:51

Get into the arena dare, greatly and try.